When shooting groups with a few of my rifles i have noticed i get a flyer every time, Always in the same spot. Its always 3/4" high and 1/2" to the left of the group. I notice it more with my 260 remington. I have tried the cladwell rock rest and bipods with a rear bag and im still getting them with both. What am i doing wrong? I make sure im square to the gun shoulders straight and when shooting prone im straight with the rifle. What should i try?
Dreaded flyers.
- Thread starter Mtstalker
- Start date
It's the shooting Gods messing with your mind! I know what you mean. A good portion of the time if I shoot 5, 1 will be a flier. If I shoot 10, 1 will be a flier. Here are two 5 shot groups at 100 yards on different days. Somehow 1 seems to get out of the group. My friend said it was just the loose nut behind the trigger. Could be! Sometimes you know when you pull a shot but other times it's a surprise.
What kind of trigger do you have and what is the poundage or ounces it takes to fire it?
The reason why benchresters have 1 and 2 oz. triggers is so they do not "push or pull" the rifle off the exact point of aim. I use 2 oz. triggers in all my competition guns and there are times I ACTUALLY SEE myself "pushing" the trigger rather than pulling it STRAIGHT BACK.. You can REALLY notice it when you fire pistols. If you don't pull the trigger straight back you will have a difficult time shooting very accurately.. By the same token it does not take much to push or pull the trigger and move the point of aim. The reason I think it is your trigger is because you say the bullet "flyers" all land at or near the same spot every time>>>>that is indicative of shooter error>>>in my opinion most likely trigger control..
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
Two things that I would look at are how you pull the trigger and follow through. The mistake that a lot of fellows make is to try ti pull their trigger as if they were snapping off a shot at a running animal. When shooting from a support of some kind I keep adding pressure to the trigger until the rifle goes off, but do not know exactly when that will happen. You just slowly increase pressure until it goes off. The other thing is follow through, as the shot breaks and after, for a real second, you should look like a corpse, with absolutely no reaction. If you want to get an idea of what you are doing take a video from the side while you shoot your group(s). You can frame it tight so that it just shows your upper body. Finally, is your action bedded in your stock. If it is, have you checked the bedding with a dial indicator? Finally, do you have a rear sling stud on your butt stock that could be hanging up on your rear bag. and is the back of your pistol grip touching your bag either before or after the shot?
Lots of good info so far. Possible inconsistent holds on the rifle. I'm trying to refine how I do things and it seems to help. I use a 1-3/4 lb trigger and it's not a bench rest rifle but I do fire off a front adjustable rest and a rear bag. I've been trying to use a very light hold and not influence my aim with cheek pressure. I lightly touch my cheek to the stock for a point of reference. My right had has a very loose hold and I just touch the butt against my shoulder allowing the rifle to recoil into it. Any pressure with either my firing hand or cheek will usually make the point of aim change left or right after recoil. Also, I get on target and then start applying increasing pressure straight back on the center of the trigger until it breaks and then hold it rearward for a second or two. Have you tried dry firing and see if your point of aim changes when the trigger is pulled? There should be no noticeable movement.
Ammo can also cause fliers. I'm doing better after I started using an FX-300i scale vs a beam scale so the powder charges are much closer. Cases are weighed (better than nothing but not nearly as good as measuring the volume). Necks are turned, the shoulder are set back at .001" or less, bullets are weighed, and are seated from the distance to the lands to within .001". I also started using Imperial dry lube in the necks.
Ammo can also cause fliers. I'm doing better after I started using an FX-300i scale vs a beam scale so the powder charges are much closer. Cases are weighed (better than nothing but not nearly as good as measuring the volume). Necks are turned, the shoulder are set back at .001" or less, bullets are weighed, and are seated from the distance to the lands to within .001". I also started using Imperial dry lube in the necks.
I like what Boyd says here. Since you have the issue with several rifles, it's probably shooter error. The other thing I might add is set up a wind flag. This might reduce the errors and it will teach you some wind reading skills as well.
Shouldn't be. The poster board may have not been very tight. Those were .308 with 168g Hornady BTHP at about 2,600 fps at 100 yards. Yes, it's a Savage. I reworked the trigger and also made an overtravel stop. There is no creep or takeup. It'd not a benchrest rifle and I shoot off these.
Back to the topic, probably most fliers are probably shooter error. Not doing the exact same thing the same way each time. You shouldn't have to muscle the gun to get it or keep it on target. A lot of time that's a problem I have trying to have it sit there on target and not touched, then get into firing position without it moving usually left or right. Also, I always level the reticle with a bubble level on the scope.
DirtySteve
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks for this. I am having the same problem as the OP but it is usually two shots per 5 shot string. The other three are touching and it is driving me nuts. I will take the rear most stud on the front out and see if it cures the issue.
SSL
Gold $$ Contributor
Any of the above may be your problem, but if it is happening consistently on the last shot, you may have a barrel heating/stock contact issue. In my case, when I get the first four in the same hole anxiety sets in and I sometimes try too hard. This always results in that last shot about a half inch high directly over the initial group.
BoydAllen
Gold $$ Contributor
One more thing that often gets lost in the mix is that for rifles to perform consistently actions need to be properly bedded. Another thing is that rifle's with sporter style stocks generally need to be held and not barely touched. Their front bag should contact the forend farther back than many commonly place them. I find that having the front bag positioned so it is 3" in front of the action often gives better accuracy than farther forward. Many shooters think that if they barely touch a rifle that it will shoot better. Often that is entirely wrong. Just remember don't hold your rifle down as you are holding it because as it recoils you will try to control it in that direction and not do it consistently.
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