Drawing Benches at a Registered Bench Rest Match - Input & Concerns!!!

[RSRains]

Hello All,

I have some concerned Registered Bench Rest shooters that have reached out to me with some concerns on how the benches are being drawn at some registered matches.

I am looking for any input and or concerns from those that participant at these registers matches.

Below I have provided the page of rules from the IBS Rule Book.

Drawing for benches
1) The Host Club through its representative shall conduct a drawing for benches. One of the Referees or
Statistician shall be present to see the drawing is fairly conducted and to represent shooters not
present when called upon to draw.
2) Latecomers must draw their benches by lot in presence of the Chairperson Referee or the Statistician.
3) Clubs have the option of having but one drawing and requiring each competitor to shoot from the
same bench for all matches at all ranges or they may allow two drawings - one for matches at the first
distance and one for the matches at the second distance.
4) Having drawn a bench or benches, a competitor will not be permitted to make any further changes in
relays or benches, except when through some physical condition a hardship results, in which case the
Range Officer may change the assignment of bench or relay or both in such a way as to relieve the
hardship.
5) At Championship Tournaments a system of bench rotation shall be used, whereby each competitor
shall draw by lot his/her competitor or bench number for the first event of each day or at each range,
and for each following events shall move a predetermined number of benches. He/she may be
assigned the same competitor number for all subsequent events at the same Tournament.
6) Since rotation of benches is required at IBS Championships and preregistration is also mandatory, the
Host Club may draw benches for competitors and assign benches for physical hardships prior to the
Tournament occurring. This speeds up registration at the Tournament and reduces complications.
7) Bench rotation may be used at any IBS Registered Tournament when so elected by the Host Club.
8) Host Clubs must definitely state in their program for each Tournament whether they will hold one or
two drawings for benches, or if they will use the bench rotation system.
9) A competitor may identify up to three other competitors to share bench rotation at the time of bench
drawing. He or she must declare the other individuals prior to any of the individuals drawing for
benches. Pre-registration is encouraged. The Host Club will accommodate the request up to available
benches on currently open relays.

 

[bugman]

Hello All,

I have some concerned Registered Bench Rest shooters that have reached out to me with some concerns on how the benches are being drawn at some registered matches.

I am looking for any input and or concerns from those that participant at these registers matches.

Below I have provided the page of rules from the IBS Rule Book.

Drawing for benches
1) The Host Club through its representative shall conduct a drawing for benches. One of the Referees or
Statistician shall be present to see the drawing is fairly conducted and to represent shooters not
present when called upon to draw.
2) Latecomers must draw their benches by lot in presence of the Chairperson Referee or the Statistician.
3) Clubs have the option of having but one drawing and requiring each competitor to shoot from the
same bench for all matches at all ranges or they may allow two drawings - one for matches at the first
distance and one for the matches at the second distance.
4) Having drawn a bench or benches, a competitor will not be permitted to make any further changes in
relays or benches, except when through some physical condition a hardship results, in which case the
Range Officer may change the assignment of bench or relay or both in such a way as to relieve the
hardship.
5) At Championship Tournaments a system of bench rotation shall be used, whereby each competitor
shall draw by lot his/her competitor or bench number for the first event of each day or at each range,
and for each following events shall move a predetermined number of benches. He/she may be
assigned the same competitor number for all subsequent events at the same Tournament.
6) Since rotation of benches is required at IBS Championships and preregistration is also mandatory, the
Host Club may draw benches for competitors and assign benches for physical hardships prior to the
Tournament occurring. This speeds up registration at the Tournament and reduces complications.
7) Bench rotation may be used at any IBS Registered Tournament when so elected by the Host Club.
8) Host Clubs must definitely state in their program for each Tournament whether they will hold one or
two drawings for benches, or if they will use the bench rotation system.
9) A competitor may identify up to three other competitors to share bench rotation at the time of bench
drawing. He or she must declare the other individuals prior to any of the individuals drawing for
benches. Pre-registration is encouraged. The Host Club will accommodate the request up to available
benches on currently open relays.

So, what specifically are the "concerns"?

 

[EEP]

The process with current IBS rules in place has seemed fair in my limited experience. No complaints here improvements or concerns.

 

[dusterdave173]

We attended a fun match series last summer--Bench is First Come First served
The 'regulars" were always on the best level units--I asked about drawing for them MD said nope first come--so we got there an hour early and when they rolled in we were sitting on "their" bench
The head game aspect was great--so the next match they wised up and came in at 630 am--ummm Nope --we were already there--same results--went well for us. So the next match these guys got there at 530am--umm Nope again we were already there--
So the next match--we rolled in 20 minutes before match starts--they had all been there since about 430 am --they had drank so much coffee and were umm--worn out already we did well again
After that we all just gave up and laughed at each other

 

[Tim Singleton]

Russell, I really don’t know how the benches are assigned. I just wait until it gets posted

Do the clubs actually draw names from a hat or does the computer randomly pick

ive never been a part of an actual drawing for a bench

 

[rayporter]

Tim
i hope you got an extra degree or two to help with your heat this morning!!


in Arkansas we are sorta backwoodsy, so each shooter gets to draw his number from a tin can.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I am a Short Range Competitor, NBRSA, Group and Score.

At NBRSA Registered Matches, the main concern as written in the a rule Book is nobody shall be allowed to pick their own Bench. Benches can be assigned either by a random computer draw or each competitor drawing a numbered chip from a container.

I have never been to a NBRSA Match where there was a second draw when moving from one day to the next, or one yardage to the next. We generally just move 10 Benches to the right.

Of course, at National Events, you rotate a pre determined number after each group or score target.

There are certain ranges at non championship Registered Matches where there is no advantage, and the shooters will simply say “to heck with it, let’s stay on the same Bench”. New Braunfels is like this.

But like I said. The rule book is very specific in that no competitor shall be allowed to choose his bench at a Registered Match.

We even draw for Benches at our Tomball Non Registered Club Matches. It’s the only true way to make things as fair as possible.

I was thinking about going over to another Club’s Matches this year, but I understand that when it comes to Benches, It’s first come first serve. The range has a distinct advantage on one side. Certain Club Members can get there early, (gate code), and claim a Bench. Out of towners get what’s left since they cannot get in until a specific time.

It’s their prerogative to run their Matches any way they want. It’s my prerogative to not go.

I know this thread is specifically for IBS Registered Matches. I do not shoot IBS, as there are none held anywhere within 1000 miles of me.

 

[RRoe]

I'm a UBR match director for our club all matches must be pre-register there is always me my wife and one more when we draw for benches to do this since we have 30 benches we have 30 ping pong balls numbered 1-30 in a container if the shooter that registers says he wants to share a bench that bench is out of the drawing unless we have over 2 relays it keeps going fair and simpleBut remember this is UBR not IBS I was told that the rules were similar but not the same.

 

[Joe Salty]

Our last years world open we drew chips out of coffee cans and it seemed to work out! I myself do not like computer draws never trust a computer draw.

Joe salt

 

[RSRains]

I think computer draws can be rigged.
If man made it, it can be altered.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I think computer draws can be rigged.
If man made it, it can be altered.

Most matches do have some type of actual draw. The best might be when the shooter registers, he reaches on the can and draws a numbered chip. That is how they do it at New Braunfels and Lake Charles.

Of course, that takes honesty. I would hope there is enough of that to satisfy everybody.

 

[CaptainMal]

We alter the computer at Manatee so that each relay frees up a qualified shooter to run other relays. It would be difficult to end up with all the qualified and experienced shooters that can run a line and work the microphone and timers on the same relay.

There are practical reasons to alter the computer placement results.

Another reason would be handicapped shooters and certain benches that might be easier to accommodate them. Then there is the issue of shooters sharing the same equipment or maybe a minor being introduced to shooting and coached by a parent or certain other shooter.

Accommodations like that make for a reasonable shoot that is both fair and inclusive for those with special needs. You have to modify the computer placement for that.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I think computer draws can be rigged.
If man made it, it can be altered.

Wow, it’s unimaginable that someone would even consider that at a rifle match.

 

[steve210]

Any range that allows the appearance of people picking their bench at a match does so at their own peril. Their attendance numbers will suffer. No one wants to feel that they were treated unfairly.

 

[JFrank]

I shoot IBS 1000 yard Benchrest, we rotate bench assignments for each rely, it’s just part of the deal. As soon as you think bench X has an advantage over bench Y a world record gets set on a totally different bench.
Best IMO is not to worry about trivial matters and concentrate on tuning and reading conditions.

Stay Tuned

 

[RSRains]

Hello All,

To bring a little more light to some of my concerns.

1- We are talking about registered matches here. Where a world record is possible!!! If non registered matches would like to follow you may draw more shooters to your match or if whoever draws bench #1 gets a free lunch, snickers bar or a can of beer (if the range allows alcohol on the property and not just marijuana) at the end of the day.
2- When the chips are drawn they can not be laying flat on the table with the numbers facing down, and scratches, cracks, marks, or missing corners of the chips facing up. These chips need to be placed in a bag, can, hat or the ole spitoon (that is collecting dust in the corner) where the person drawing the chip can not see the chips.
3- A non bias witness needs to witness all the draws.
4- Handicap benches are a must if needed!!! I am think if a handicap person needs a bench maybe they can provide the handicap paperwork when they pay for the annual dues and their registration card would provide info to the range at the time of the draw that they are handicapped, or they could just tell the range office he or she is handicap at the time of registration.

Again, I am reaching out for more INPUT & CONCERNS!!!

More to come.

Thanks Russell

 

[Loggins J]

All i can say is that the cream will come to the top as a match director you here shooters complain they got bad benches but you never here the winners complain and the next match the complainers will get the last match winners bench and they will still complain I think the ones complaining just are trying to make a excuse

 

[Walt Krafft]

Not having been to any matches yet, how are flags setup, and when you rotate benches, do you move your flags?

 

[jackieschmidt]

All i can say is that the cream will come to the top as a match director you here shooters complain they got bad benches but you never here the winners complain and the next match the complainers will get the last match winners bench and they will still complain I think the ones complaining just are trying to make a excuse

I disagree.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Not having been to any matches yet, how are flags setup, and when you rotate benches, do you move your flags?

Walt, the vast majority of Registered Group Matches, (two Gun Events), are now shooting the two 100 yardages on Saturday and the two 200 yardages on Sunday. You stay on the same bench all day Saturday, and rotate 10 benches to the right on Sunday.
You have to move the flags for 200 anyway, so this makes it easier on the moving of the target frames, since the host club only has to move them once.

At one day Varmint for Score Matches, you start at 100, then when you move to 200 in the afternoon, you rotate 10 benches to the right.