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Down loading the .223 Remington

Frankr

I would like around 22 Hornet Velocity. For small game short range work where a 22LR maybe too light. I have talked a few times with others about down loading to 22LR velocity's with bigger cartridges and I have done it successfully but always worried about that little bit of power in the case.
With a 223 the case is small. I have read guy's use Trail Boss but the speed is too low. I would like a Hornet and have looked at buying a hornet but dont like any rifles or their prices in the Hornet so I am going to buy a inexpensive .223 bolt gun and down load it to the speed and tune I want. I figure two loads with a 53gr V max. One around 2,400 to 2,600 FPS and a full throttle HV load. The short range load will be used for close range short field work. The HV load well for when the other is not ideal. Kind of like knowing your dial on a match load and HV load on your 22LR which I do. I am thinking I shoot a 69 SMK in my AR with Military brass and 26.0 grs Varget is a full full case, I actually charge with a drop tube so I am not compressing the powder. They show a start load of 23.0 Grs at 3,000-3,100 depending on barrel length. 22" barrel. So I was thinking I could drop to 20.0grs or even 19.0 grs and still have 3/4 case fill. That should not be dangerous. What do the Experts say ?
 
Reduced loads with certain powders can be very dangerous. Be sure and do your research on this. H4895 comes to mind as one Sierra used to recommend for reduced loads. Do not take my word for this and be sure and confirm with Sierra or Hodgedon powders. Good luck and be careful.:D:D

Paul
 
I have used Unique powder in some other calibers, Large cases. I have even tapped bullet down and loaded down hill and fired and I shot a few hundred, never had a problem but always felt leary so stoped doing it but the 223 case is small and would feel comfortable with 3/4 case fill. I have some Blue Dot and now that I read that I remember hearing about it before.
 
I'm a sometimes cast bullet shooter, and am looking at the Lyman Cast Bullet data right now.

Pretty much all of the Alliant Pistol powders have very reduced charges listed for cast bullet weights from 35-55 gr. Powder charge weights for these loads are in the 5 to 8 grain area. Velocity is in the range you desire.

I also used to used a IMR 4227 load for my 222 cast loads. It was a half case full, 12 gr.. I can't find my published data for that one, so can't recommend it.

None of these loads are listed with filler and what-not, and I know it sounds crazy to many - the thought of a iiddy-biddy smidge of powder rattling around in the case. These loads work well however.

If you want specifics, PM me, for details. Look in any of the Lyman manuals if you have one. jd
 
I have tried many reduced loads in the .223 . H4895, Titegroup, and Trail boss . All shooting was @ 100 yards . With the 50-55 I had the best luck with 16-16.5 grains of H4895 and tuned it with seating depth and slight tweaks in the powder . Trail boss and Titegroup were not consistent enough for my liking . Just my findings,we all no the rifle will decide what works.
 
I just made some reduced 221 Fireball loads this weekend. My gun has a 14 twist, and I chose to use 55gr fb sp's . I shot a few this spring with a similar bullet, so I knew about what to expect. I started at 5.4grs of blue dot, and ran it up to just 7.0 grs. This was worked up 2/10 ths at a time. The 5.4 gr load wouldn't stabilze the 55's , but 5.6 did. 5.8grs shot well, but I settled on 6.8grs with a .270 group at 50-55 yds.

I didn't even play with seating tests as I don't have many of the bullets on hand. Hopefully I get to shot thru a chrony to see where I am, but I suspect I'm around 22 mag speeds or a fuzz more with a 55. A 12 twist would of allowed me to go lower than 5.4grs if I wanted, but I'm about where I want to be.
 
Go to the Hodgdon's website Reloading Data Center, they have reduced loads for H4895 and Trail Boss.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/node

hodgdon® h4895® reduced rifle loads - IMR ® Powder
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=2ahUKEwiOrtb7kYneAhXM1lkKHbmGA0EQFjAAegQIAxAC&url=https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2NOvnZearGn4fjeTV0qqVd

IMR TRAIL BOSS REDUCED LOADS FOR RIFLE AND PISTOL
https://imrpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/trail-boss-reduced-loads-r_p.pdf

Below is the Trail Boss load listed at Hogdon's for the .223 I use in my .223

Trail Boss, 4.0 Grs, 1,074 fps

Trail Boss is a high bulk powder that fills the case better and helps prevent double charges. I started using Trail Boss when I could no longer find SR4759 that was also a high bulk powder designed for reduced loads and a better loading density that fills the case.
 
Last edited:
FJIM said:
.........I figure two loads with a 53gr V max. One around 2,400 to 2,600 FPS and a full throttle HV load..........
Click to expand...

Might want to check your twist rate for this combo...several guys are saying that the 53 grain V-Max requires a faster twist, like 1-in-9, especially if you are reducing the velocity. I had no idea, I don't use this bullet. But, I do remember trying them and in a 1-in-14 {I mean, it's a 53 grain bullet???} I didn't have very good results at 100 yards for group. It is said that 1-in-12 will do it IF you pump up the velocity fast enough.
If you have never cast your own bullets before, now might be a good time to think about trying it for what you want to do. it's cheap, it's fun, it works and where else but Mexico can you put all that together at the same time???!!!
 
I had decent results with the 53gr vmax in a 12 twist 223. My data is among the missing as a few early pages of my spiral bound load development notebook were tattered and have left the building. If memory serves the best I got them to shoot was in the .3's .
The factory rifle I shot them in proved to shoot a match bullet only a fuzz better, so I believe my 12 twist stabilized them fine. As msinc said I'd have my doubts if you could slow them down much without losing the stability in a 12 twist.
 
Two sporter,factory barrel 223's here(have others as well) ..... old flatback Savage 16 with a 9? twist and a new ADL 12T.

Lyman #4 book shows 14.5g IMR4198 behind a Lee 55g as "max" @2250fps..... please check everything on these #'s. Anyway,out of the 22" Savage16,that's a great,shoot all day, beercans up at 150 yd rig. Not a lot of terminal ballistics, pencils through cans and Ghog brains.

Loading for the 24" ADL "starts" @14.5g and finds a "practical" node @18.5g..... same powder/bullet. Velocity? haven't chrono'd out of shear laziness but it's over the 2500fps "hump" that many speak of in CB circles. Have taken this same 55g up to 2800+ in an old flat back Savage 22-250 with boring consistency and braggin acc. Hence,don't need those numbers with the ADL.....25-2600 with 4198 is what the target was when starting this "2019" varmint blaster.
 
once again thanks for all the info. The calhoon was a good read. I called and got a message that said call after the 15th so I will try and get some 42gr's from calhoon. But I think the 53gr V max will be the best at low velocity. Yes it needs a 1-12 min twist this is a 1-9 so it should work for me it the barrel will shoot them decent. But bullet choice is tough due to most frangible bullets do not due well in a 1-9 twist at full velocity as most of them bullets were designed for a 14 Twist and work well in a 12 Twist. I had a 40X in a HB single shot 14 Twist 223 with what the old the 40X had a 28 1/2" barrel. It was accurate. I guess 20 years ago. I sold it. This will be a light weight 22" inexpensive sporter for hunting when ya just feel the 22LR ain't enough. Yea I think 2,400 to 2,600 FPS is where I would like to try it at. Like a Hornet or a Bee. Hey just for fun but I do like the idea a being able to stick a full velocity load in. nice beater around walking around rifle is what I have in mind and I do think the 223 is up to it. I wacked a few groundhog at 450 Yards with the old 40X on a good day. but I had quite a few bad windy days where you could not hit at 300 yards with a 50gr'er.
I do think the heavy slower bullets are more consistent at long range as far as coming up with the dope and sticking in there. I dont want it for long range but I guess its nice that the 1-9 can shoot heavy loads maybe just to play around.
I shoot a 69 SMK in my AR and it is quite accurate but is a heavy barrel set up.
 
Try 23.0g Varget and the Nosler 55g HP or tipped Varmageddons. This is Noslers most accurate load per their website. I shoot this in a Savage FV12 1/9 twist 26" barrel. Both bullets loaded to their specs, can mix 'em up and still shoot <1 moa
 
We have a guy in our club that shoots a .243 with Trailboss loaded to really light loads and it shoots like a 22LR in a big centerfire cartridge. At 100yds it shoots big bug holes but beyond that it falls apart and will not hold a group.
 
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