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Doughnuts inside case neck

Well, I don't think we need to debate about how or when brass flows...it does flow...and forward. Everybody has to size their brass and everyone has to trim it and everyone will get donuts sooner or later. If you want to mitigate or prevent donuts, then use a neck turning tool with a cutter to match your shoulder angle Then, cut a healthy amount out of the neck/shoulder junction. With proper cutter, this virtually eliminates the donut issue without causing any neck separations. I never had a neck separate doing this and the donut problem is gone for....the life of the brass. :) Or, you could just use no-turn brass and get your freebore such that the bullet is never close to the donut. That would be the way to solve this problem with a lot less work! We use about .250 FB on our 284s and it works like a charm. Have converted a bunch of people over to the dark side (no-turn) and they have been very pleased (and surprised) with the results.
Ohhh yes, and the inimitable Scottie.... let's us not leave anyone out.....

Y'all are in good hands here kiddies with Uncle Scott and kindly cousin Joe......


Just you scamper on out into traffic now and look for them coins now, the big road with the fences downside is BEST! You'se climb over or cut the fence and get out there, get them nuggets before the cars run over them and scuff 'em up....

I be SAVE these posts eh.... mebbeso print 'em out! put that big one with the pixture of the pile of brass and the part about "making up facts" in it right up on my wall!


wheeee
 
You are entitled to your opinion, but not to make up facts.

Yes, theoretically if I take a large cylinder and compress it to form a narrower cylinder the wall thickness has to increase. So I will give you that, but that is only in theory. In the real world things are more complicated.

Most virgin brass manufactured necks have as much as .003 differences in neck walls and will easily fit in a SAAMI chamber with simple neck sizing and generally will have excess head space. It isn't unusual for Lapua or Norma brass to have .005 or more of head space. Sometimes its even more and I have to jam the bullets to keep the brass from being pushed forward by the firing pin therefore failing to fire. That's why most competitors don't take virgin brass to matches, it isn't fire formed to the chamber. After the brass has been fire formed most of us precision shooters only push back the shoulder a couple of thousands. After pushing the shoulder back .002 it is still forward or where it was when in its virgin state. So your claim that pushing the shoulder back creates donuts is false.

I uniform (I think the term "turn" hides the real purpose) my virgin brass, and after I've fired the first time I uniform the necks again. Guess what happens? More brass is removed. Where did it come from? Pressure, 60,000+ psi, and heat drove it forward. Why? Very simple, that's where the pressure release is. Brass flows forward, because ignition starts at the case head with primer blowing everything forward because of heat and pressure.

Yes, Ackley Improved cartridges reduce brass flow, that is the main benefit of AI, because the 40 degree shoulder provides more support to forward pressure. However, it doesn't eliminate it. I know I have 260AI.

In theory one should be able to ream a donut out of the case, in reality that is not practical because getting the geometric dimensions just right (wall thickness, and neck size) is beyond the ability/finances of most reloaders. So, the best most of us can do is push the donut to the outside and remove it with a neck turner.

The higher the pressure you run, the more likely you are to have a donut. If you can seat the bullet forward of the donut, that's the way to go. But, remember heat and pressure drive brass forward and with enough firings the brass will move to your bearing surface and affect neck tension, bullet alignment and bullet release.

Kindest regards,

Joe

View attachment 1081026


I had to preserve this....
 
Can doughnuts form by full length resizing?

In short...yes. But it's not always that simple. And sometimes it is. ;)

The whole 'donut' situation can also include the die/chamber dimension, how the necks were turned, how the shoulders were blended during the turning process, case material issues, the true amount of shoulder setback during sizing, etc, etc.

Having a true, round neck I.D. that is both concentric to and parallel with the outside neck is what I found to work.

Good shootin'. -Al
 
Gosh
I'm again the minority with no Donuts.

I don't turn necks
I don't anneal brass
I do use quality Dies
I do use quality brass
Humm
What have I done wrong?
J
It maybe that your process is good, your not running stupid high pressure, your dies match your chamber well, or just lucky. Dont question good luck :)
 

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