Is there any damage at all done to the necks of brass during tumbling (with shell or stainless media)? I have never tumbled but heard that the necks can get some damage from repeatedly running into each other for hours at a time and wondered if it did any visible damage or enough to effect accuracy from inconsistent neck tension at long range.
Does tumbling damge case necks?
- Thread starter in2deep
- Start date
I read on Varmint Al's website that the repeated bumping together can work harden the brass. I suggest you go to the website and read for yourself. He explained it very well. Not sure if it is true or not, but in theory it makes sense.
I've never found tumbled brass to be any more accurate. If I want to clean them up, I use Never Dull, or some 0000 steel wool. This doesn't get any of the carbon from inside the brass out, but I don't think tumbling gets that much out either.
I've never found tumbled brass to be any more accurate. If I want to clean them up, I use Never Dull, or some 0000 steel wool. This doesn't get any of the carbon from inside the brass out, but I don't think tumbling gets that much out either.
watercam
Silver $$ Contributor
I tumble my brass every time I shoot them. I load for 13 rifle calibers, two of which are for NRA Long Range. Winchester, Norma, Nosler and Remington brass. I do not anneal and am able to get 10-12 reloadings before retiring the brass, usually because of loose primer pockets. I use corn or walnut and I use neck bushing sizing dies with no button. I have never noticed any neck problems of any kind in ten years of the above reloading perameters.
Mike T.
Mike T.
Ackman
Gold $$ Contributor
No. Tumbling won't affect casenecks. Watch what happens in a vibrator tumbler. The tumbler case vibrates real fast and with so little movement, you can't really see it. The media inside is light and you can see it vibrate and circulate. The cases are heavy and suspended in the media and they hardly vibrate at all. It's media vibrating against the cases that scrubs them clean. Cases circulating will touch if there're enough of them in there. They'll brush against each other but they sure's h*ll don't bang against each other, and they sure's h*ll aren't gonna be denting. Squeeze a caseneck with your fingers and see if you can dent it. And work hardening brass?.....watch what happens in there and decide for yourself if this "theory" is nonsense or something to be concerned about.
I could see where vibratory cleaning would be milder but was mostly wondering about using a tumbler with a spinning drum like a Thumblers. Was reading that consistent neck tension is very key for LR accuracy and wanted to be sure tumbling didn't induce any denting of the necks before I went down that road and ruined some perfectly good Lapua brass.
By the way, I do tumble brass when they get really bad. I find it easier to clean them with Never-dull than to shake all the corn cob medium out of them though. So if they are not too bad, I manually clean rather than take the time to tumble. Never thought of it much until just now, but I almost always trim my brass after I tumble.
Here is the excerpt from Varmint Al's website:
Smooth and uniform case mouths are very important in producing accurate reloads. Therefore, I don't polish my carefully prepared brass in a tumbler. During polishing, the case mouths are hammered against the other cases in the tumbler. The hammering rolls over a small lip or burr on the ID and OD of each case mouth. This peening process also locally work hardens the brass. These tiny rolled-over rings of brass at the case mouths are harder than the rest of the annealed neck. These rings and tiny peen marks are very obvious on new brass. If you look at your nice shiny cleaned cases out of the tumbler, you will see the battered case mouths!
He has posted a picture above this text that makes a pretty convincing arguement in his favor. Based on the work Varmint Al has put into his website and his experience as an engineer, he carries a lot more credibility than the run of the mill opinion on the Internet. I'm not sure he is right, but thought it was worth posting since in2deep asked.
Here is the excerpt from Varmint Al's website:
Smooth and uniform case mouths are very important in producing accurate reloads. Therefore, I don't polish my carefully prepared brass in a tumbler. During polishing, the case mouths are hammered against the other cases in the tumbler. The hammering rolls over a small lip or burr on the ID and OD of each case mouth. This peening process also locally work hardens the brass. These tiny rolled-over rings of brass at the case mouths are harder than the rest of the annealed neck. These rings and tiny peen marks are very obvious on new brass. If you look at your nice shiny cleaned cases out of the tumbler, you will see the battered case mouths!
He has posted a picture above this text that makes a pretty convincing arguement in his favor. Based on the work Varmint Al has put into his website and his experience as an engineer, he carries a lot more credibility than the run of the mill opinion on the Internet. I'm not sure he is right, but thought it was worth posting since in2deep asked.
I will agree with what is being said for the most part, but if you anneal your necks regularly & get them a little on the soft side, some dinging can occur. I overdid some of my 30BR cases a couple of years ago & dinged 'em up a bit in the tumbler afterwards. However, we're talking pretty thin (.010") necks. I wouldn't think tumbling would ever damage standard cases.
Not strictly related to the subject but want to mention cleaning fired cases by spinning them on a tapered mandrel in a drill press. The case is held on the arbour with a 3M synthetic pad (steel wool equivalent of 000 or 0000) in one hand and pressing the pad around the case with the other hand. Keeping slight upward pressure has the case spinning easily in the pad. It takes a maximum of three seconds to clean a case. It makes old fashioned tumbling look outdated.
Frank, you have a way of stating things that lend a lot of credibility to your opinion. I've always liked that about your posts.
Tozguy - you ever have any concerns that steel wool, even 0000, will thin the necks, especailly turning them in a drill press? Any concern about keeping them concentric? I've never worried about it much, but it has crossed my mind.
Tozguy - you ever have any concerns that steel wool, even 0000, will thin the necks, especailly turning them in a drill press? Any concern about keeping them concentric? I've never worried about it much, but it has crossed my mind.
Otter,
Yes the method of spinning the case at 3000 rpm in an abrasive pad is fast but harsh. After noticing a slight accumulation of brass dust in the pad, I now keep the scrubbing as even as possible from case to case. Any spots of carbon left after 3 seconds of scrubbing on the mandrel, gets polished off with Brasso as opposed to giving it he)) on the mandrel. Please note that I use this method mainly for the initial clean up of once fired brass. After that, it is only the outside of the necks that need light cleaning from load to load and I do this by hand using a nonabrasive pad dampened with Shooters Choice.
I don't turn necks nor check concentricity. With more expensive brass and turning necks, an ultrasonic cleaner would make more sense than the above mandrel method. I used to tumble my cases in walnut shells and red rouge with good results but an ultrasonic cleaner looks like less work.
PS I second your comment about Frank's posts.
Yes the method of spinning the case at 3000 rpm in an abrasive pad is fast but harsh. After noticing a slight accumulation of brass dust in the pad, I now keep the scrubbing as even as possible from case to case. Any spots of carbon left after 3 seconds of scrubbing on the mandrel, gets polished off with Brasso as opposed to giving it he)) on the mandrel. Please note that I use this method mainly for the initial clean up of once fired brass. After that, it is only the outside of the necks that need light cleaning from load to load and I do this by hand using a nonabrasive pad dampened with Shooters Choice.
I don't turn necks nor check concentricity. With more expensive brass and turning necks, an ultrasonic cleaner would make more sense than the above mandrel method. I used to tumble my cases in walnut shells and red rouge with good results but an ultrasonic cleaner looks like less work.
PS I second your comment about Frank's posts.
Tozguy & Otter: Thanks for the positive comments: I try to only "speak" about subjects I have personal knowledge of, or can backup my comments with advice from those more knowledgable than I, like the recent thread on crimping 223 ammo, or any ammo for that matter. "Brasso" caught my eye, and I've been using it since the early 1960's to lightly polish my brass, and no, I've never seen any reaction that would shorten the life of the brass., but recently found a product that is working (for me), even better than the old standard, Brasso. "Wright's Brass Polish", in a 8 oz. white plastic bottle, water based, rinses off. Mfg. by Weiman Products,LLC Gurnee IL 60031 1-800-837-8140, and "made in the USA". Less rubbing to remove the carbon buildup on the case neck, higher shine, and seems to leave a smoother surface on the brass. I prefer to keep my necks as clean as possible,especially with the 223 fired in the AR's. A split neck will show up a lot easier than when reloaded "dirty"---- then you discover the split. Or during a match the very small split completely fails and the shot is "gone". 
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