Does this 20 Cal barrel bore look normal???

[NorCalMikie]

Just saw same marks in a Howa today. And the Howa is an accurate rifle.

How does it shoot?????

First thing I would do is "get rid of the bore scope"!!
THEN, shoot the crap out and see what your target tells you. (don't fix it if it ain't broke)
But from what you've seen, you already have a bad opinion of it so no matter what, it's junk!!

And I might add, I've NEVER Bore Scoped any of my barrels. Got a couple of "lower cost" (compared to most) barrels and I would NEVER even consider looking at them with a bore scope. They all shoot bug holes with 5 shots groups that can be covered with a dime so no chance of bursting my bubble from something I REALLY didn't want to see or needed to in the first place.
Hope things turn out well for you, no matter the outcome.

 

[Bachekermooni]

First thing I would do is "get rid of the bore scope"!!
THEN, shoot the crap out and see what your target tells you. (don't fix it if it ain't broke)
But from what you've seen, you already have a bad opinion of it so no matter what, it's junk!!

I have no issues shooting the crap out of it. Just that I have never had to shoot the crap out of any of my other barrels, nor have I seen such machine marks in any other barrel, custom or factory. It looks to me looks like one of the lands is shorter than other two since the slope of the lead is shorter on that land and it is the one with machine marks.
I will see what they say tomorrow.
Cheers.

 

[RegionRat]

In for the after action report of the phone call.

Just curious about something. Did the smith who chambered that bbl have anything to say about it before or after? If they examined it up front and decided to proceed without discussing it with you, it would be interesting to hear their opinion.

 

[searcher]

The machine marks are pretty typical of a lot of factory barrels. I've seen Savage and Ruger barrels that look FAR worse, though they still shoot really good as intended, as sporting rifles. As another mentioned, you can't compare many factory barrels with Sako tubes. Appearance-wise, they look better than many custom barrels. It could just be the lighting - but that last image looks like a bore that has had some mileage put on it from being fired. Looks like far more than 8 rounds! Beyond the machine marks - there appears to be fire cracking, carbon and copper - not to mention a few pits. I'm guessing that pic was near the throat. Regardless - don't let those machine marks bother you. I have a Ruger .243 Winchester varmint with a tube that looks like a gravel road (since new) and it shot a .078" 5-shot group after 2,500 rounds with inexpensive varmint bullets. Just depends on what you expect of it. Safety is not an issue simply because of the presence of such machine marks. There are lots of conflicting opinions on the CA barrels. I've had experience with a few of their rifles - and I was far from impressed. Hope your tube shoots well for you.

 

[Bachekermooni]

The machine marks are pretty typical of a lot of factory barrels. I've seen Savage and Ruger barrels that look FAR worse, though they still shoot really good as intended, as sporting rifles. As another mentioned, you can't compare many factory barrels with Sako tubes. Appearance-wise, they look better than many custom barrels. It could just be the lighting - but that last image looks like a bore that has had some mileage put on it from being fired. Looks like far more than 8 rounds! Beyond the machine marks - there appears to be fire cracking, carbon and copper - not to mention a few pits. I'm guessing that pic was near the throat. Regardless - don't let those machine marks bother you. I have a Ruger .243 Winchester varmint with a tube that looks like a gravel road (since new) and it shot a .078" 5-shot group after 2,500 rounds with inexpensive varmint bullets. Just depends on what you expect of it. Safety is not an issue simply because of the presence of such machine marks. There are lots of conflicting opinions on the CA barrels. I've had experience with a few of their rifles - and I was far from impressed. Hope your tube shoots well for you.

Yeah, but a barrel from a top manufacturer? Costing as much if not more than a Savage or Ruger rifle?

 

[searcher]

Yeah, but a barrel from a top manufacturer? Costing as much if not more than a Savage or Ruger rifle?

Yeah - I hear you. But I also think there has been a tremendous amount of 'hype' when it comes to their rifles and tubes. In my mind - their carbon wrapped tubes are lighter. That is fact. everything else about them is, well.......... They aren't the only company out there building and touting a product as a "game changer", when in fact, they just have something different. I probably sound jaded, but I guess I am. I've never had a Ruger or Savage bolt gun that truly shot poorly. And I've had a lot of both. I worked up loads for two different CA rifles and shot a third - none of which I'd have paid $300.00 for - and they all cost well over five times that. They really shot that badly. I recently bore scoped a Blaser that belongs to an acquaintance. Very expensive factory gun. Your tube looked just as good. In the end - it is how they shoot that matters to me. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone or they wouldn't be able to sell those Blasers (at ten times the cost) that shoot the same as the Savages.

 

[Bachekermooni]

Yeah - I hear you. But I also think there has been a tremendous amount of 'hype' when it comes to their rifles and tubes. In my mind - their carbon wrapped tubes are lighter. That is fact. everything else about them is, well.......... They aren't the only company out there building and touting a product as a "game changer", when in fact, they just have something different. I probably sound jaded, but I guess I am. I've never had a Ruger or Savage bolt gun that truly shot poorly. And I've had a lot of both. I worked up loads for two different CA rifles and shot a third - none of which I'd have paid $300.00 for - and they all cost well over five times that. They really shot that badly. I recently bore scoped a Blaser that belongs to an acquaintance. Very expensive factory gun. Your tube looked just as good. In the end - it is how they shoot that matters to me. That obviously doesn't apply to everyone or they wouldn't be able to sell those Blasers (at ten times the cost) that shoot the same as the Savages.

My only concern is the quality and finish of the custom barrel from a top vendor that I paid for. There no shot meant at any manufacturer.

 

[searcher]

Yes - my apologies - I saw ca in one of the replies and I thought that was what you had. You asked about the gunsmithing fees in such a situation. I'd say you are likely to be paying for the re-chambering of a replacement barrel (if you go that route) on your own dime. Would have been nice to have seen a borescope image BEFORE the chamber was cut - but I've never asked for that when ordering a custom barrel from a company I have had good experiences with. I have lots Krieger, Shilen, Hart and Lilja barrels and one Brux and they are all good barrels and none looked like that. I'd truly be surprised if it was one of these companies. If I did get one that looked like that - I'd be feeling a bit down too. I'd just call them up and email your images to them and ask what they would be willing to do in the nicest way possible. I've never had to do that - but I'd bet they would treat you right from what I have read from reports of others having the rare problem. Can't really fault the gunsmith - as the barrel is in all likelihood completely serviceable, looks better than a lot of factory barrels and perhaps some of the custom barrels he has had in his shop. If you sent him the barrel, there is a bit less of an implied expectation of a call to discuss the barrel too, I think. I know one gunsmith who would probably do it over as a freebie - but he is far nicer than I. If I were you - I'd do a range session on paper to see what it does. The marks will still be there so you have nothing to lose by trying the barrel out.

 

[Bachekermooni]

Yes - my apologies - I saw ca in one of the replies and I thought that was what you had. You asked about the gunsmithing fees in such a situation. I'd say you are likely to be paying for the re-chambering of a replacement barrel (if you go that route) on your own dime. Would have been nice to have seen a borescope image BEFORE the chamber was cut - but I've never asked for that when ordering a custom barrel from a company I have had good experiences with. I have lots Krieger, Shilen, Hart and Lilja barrels and one Brux and they are all good barrels and none looked like that. I'd truly be surprised if it was one of these companies. If I did get one that looked like that - I'd be feeling a bit down too. I'd just call them up and email your images to them and ask what they would be willing to do in the nicest way possible. I've never had to do that - but I'd bet they would treat you right from what I have read from reports of others having the rare problem. Can't really fault the gunsmith - as the barrel is in all likelihood completely serviceable, looks better than a lot of factory barrels and perhaps some of the custom barrels he has had in his shop. If you sent him the barrel, there is a bit less of an implied expectation of a call to discuss the barrel too, I think. I know one gunsmith who would probably do it over as a freebie - but he is far nicer than I. If I were you - I'd do a range session on paper to see what it does. The marks will still be there so you have nothing to lose by trying the barrel out.

Thank you. Unfortunately the barrel is from one of the ones you mentioned. My gunsmith does work with the barrel maker quite a bit and recommended them. The barrel was sent directly from them to my GS. I never saw it, touched it, or looked in its barrel.

I sent them an email with pics on Monday morning and asked them what I should do next? Never heard back - I am now quite disappointed. I will call them tomorrow and see what they say. Not at all hopeful. My next barrel will definitely come from PacNor. I will never buy from any other barrel maker again. As a matter of fact I am seriously considering ordering a 20 cal, 11 twist, polygon barrel from them and write this off as experience. Will see what tomorrow brings.

 

[B23]

Why isn't your smith contacting the barrel maker? If your GS has dealt with this unnamed barrel maker before that's who should be contacting them, not you. A gunsmith, especially a repeat customer GS, will carry more weight than the consumer every time.

 

[Bachekermooni]

Why isn't your smith contacting the barrel maker? If your GS has dealt with this unnamed barrel maker before that's who should be contacting them, not you. A gunsmith, especially a repeat customer GS, will carry more weight than the consumer every time.

I will ask him. Thanks.

 

[Bachekermooni]

I called them this morning. A lady answered the phone and apologized for the lack of response. I forwarded the email to her as well. She confirmed she received it. Got my info and said I will hear back today. So far, no response.

 

[searcher]

Those following this thread (me, anyway) would like to know the manufacturer of the barrel. None of us likes to dish on a company - but I'd sure like to know if one of the companies I buy barrels from is shipping sub-par product. Doesn't mean I won't buy again - but perhaps I'll pay more attention to return policies and scope barrels before chambering. Hopefully, they treat you right. If they don't - I'd personally not feel bad about mentioning their name. If they don't mind shipping product like that - they shouldn't mind people talking about it and distributing pics of what they sell.

 

[Bachekermooni]

This is what was in their email response yesterday which went to junk mail:

"20 caliber barrels are very difficult to lap, and while on my stainless barrels I guarantee the barrels to be free of tooling marks, 17 and 20 caliber barrels fall into their own category. I would continue your break in process and shoot for groups and let me know how it goes... "

Of course their website does not exclude the 17 and 20 cal barrels. Wish I had seen it sooner. Was waiting for their response before going to the range this morning. Now it will be Monday. Will keep you posted.

@searcher:. I will let you know who the maker is after my range day on Mon.

 

[Breakshunter]

I just cleaned my 3 20cal rifles down to bare metal a couple weeks ago. A Remington a CZ and a custom barrel, they all look better than this. They have been used a fair bit but look better than this barrel. Yours is not terrible and may shoot very well but if I paid top dollar for a top shelf barrel I would not be happy with this one. Please keep us posted on this as I will be getting a barrel soon and don't want the same situation. Best of luck.

 

[Tommie]

The OP’s barrel is made by a “top tier” manufacturer. Don’t ask: I’m not telling who. I will say that I ended up with a 20 caliber barrel by a different “top tier” manufacturer that’s even worse. Complete trash, actually. Moving forward I will specifically ask a manufacturer their policy regarding subcaliber barrel quality before ordering another.

 

[searcher]

How did that tube end up shooting?

 

[Bachekermooni]

How did that tube end up shooting?

So here are the details:
Powder was TAC - same as before. Cases Hornady once fired (as 223). Primers CCI SR.
32 Vmax 26 gr, 0.010-0.013 off lands - 40 Vmax 24.7 gr, 0.010 - 0.011 off lands (the BTO on 32 was less consistent than 40).
4 more single shot and clean were done first (there was originally 8 of them).
The bore was cleaned before each group. Two 32 Vmax fouling rounds were fired prior to each group (I had more of them made).
The 8-shot 32 Vmax group was shot last.
Approx avg velocity of 32V was low 3700's and 40V was low 3400's.
Next time, I will use the fired cases in this chamber for reloading and see if the results are any better. I am mildly disappointed but optimistic. I have not cleaned the rifle after the 8-shot group. Will post bore pics later.

Cheers.

 

[jelenko]

Granted those are mediocre groups, but is there anything you'd done that indicates that powder charge should be accurate?

 

[Bachekermooni]

Granted those are mediocre groups, but is there anything you'd done that indicates that powder charge should be accurate?

Absolutely not. I just went 1 gr below 20 T listing in WP guide for TAC.
Anyone has loads for 32 and 40 Vmax with TAC?