Does seating depth really matter?

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Would you mind taking the time and stepping through each shot and noting the terminal velocity for us? There sure does not appear to be any correlation of seating depth to elevation on target. Am mostly looking at ES, not SD.

Exit timing in relation to muzzle position is what accuracy is all about. It's not strictly low es numbers. I'm guessing you know this already but I'm not sure. You could potentially have zero es happen on a "scatter node". It won't shoot there but it might shoot well enough for some.

 

[Ahhnother8]

Exit timing in relation to muzzle position is what accuracy is all about. It's not strictly low es numbers. I'm guessing you know this already but I'm not sure. You could potentially have zero es happen on a "scatter node". It won't shoot there but it might shoot well enough for some.

Totally agree, BUT at 1000 yards a big enough ES will show on the target.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Totally agree, BUT at 1000 yards a big enough ES will show on the target.

So will tune but bbl stiffness and just plain old how bad can it shoot may well be worth less than a missed wind call or es. It's all gotta be right. That's when good things happen. My goal is to make good things happen as much as I can.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Season is coming soon. Lets just go shoot!

 

[jackieschmidt]

Firstly, good shooting John.

I wonder what a comparable test with a short range BR setup (200yds) and a long range BR setup (600yds) would look like?

I also wonder what a test would look like comparing Secant, Tangent, and Hybrid ogive bullets with this process?

Something tells me the BR guys are not on board. I wonder if we will see any comments from them. I am certainly interested.

I gave you a perspective from a Short Range Benchrest Shooters point of view.

I think if you poled 100 Benchrest Shooters, 98 of the 100 would give you the same answer.

 

[jimmymac]

It matters on my 30BR and 6PPC.

 

[spudgun]

After I get a new barrel my testing is:
1. Powder weight for barrel node.
2. Seating depth for accuracy.
3. Take note of number shots need for the barrel groups come in.
4. Take note of number of shots when the groups start to open up.
5. Clean, check jump, adjust if needed
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4.

Works for me.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

After I get a new barrel my testing is:
1. Powder weight for barrel node.
2. Seating depth for accuracy.
3. Take note of number shots need for the barrel groups come in.
4. Take note of number of shots when the groups start to open up.
5. Clean, check jump, adjust if needed
5. Repeat steps 2, 3 and 4.

Works for me.

I don't disagree at all and that's not my point. I just can't imagine an accuracy related game where we don't try to make our guns shoot as well as they can. This thread and a couple of other recent ones make me question if that's what everyone does or not. I can't get my head around that notion. Absolutely...positively, I want everything the gun can give me. Period and exclamation mark!! I can't relate to less.

Some guns and loads do better than others but there are no loads that never go out of tune. None! None that I've ever seen and John's test is testament to that. If my goal is to never shoot "big", speakining only to gun/load stuff...I'd cut the bbl down to be extremely stiff...I think. It's just physics that the muzzle is less displaced with a very stiff bbl. The flip side is, in BR, a very stiff bbl that's not well tuned will still shoot just good enough to lose.

 

[Darwin]

I don't disagree at all and that's not my point. I just can't imagine an accuracy related game where we don't try to make our guns shoot as well as they can. This thread and a couple of other recent ones make me question if that's what everyone does or not. I can't get my head around that notion. Absolutely...positively, I want everything the gun can give me. Period and exclamation mark!! I can't relate to less.

Some guns and loads do better than others but there are no loads that never go out of tune. None! None that I've ever seen and John's test is testament to that. If my goal is to never shoot "big", speakining only to gun/load stuff...I'd cut the bbl down to be extremely stiff...I think. It's just physics that the muzzle is less displaced with a very stiff bbl. The flip side is, in BR, a very stiff bbl that's not well tuned will still shoot just good enough to lose.

ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
Was the 22x Fclass record done with “whatever” seating depth?

 

[Ccrider]

From a benchrest perspective, it wools be helpful to know how the gun shot with your optimum tuned seating depth and load.

 

[JFrank]

From a benchrest perspective, it wools be helpful to know how the gun shot with your optimum tuned seating depth and load.

Charles,
From the target John posted on the video, what seating depth window would you chose to further investigate ?
This is only the third time I’ve seen a one shot per increment seating ladder, the first one I struggled to interpret now with these last two I may or may not be getting the hang of it.
IDK yet

 

[GetReal]

IME....seating depth will tighten up groups to at least 0.375" @ 100 yds. And those groups will will hold up to at least 700 yds.

 

[Ccrider]

Charles,
From the target John posted on the video, what seating depth window would you chose to further investigate ?
This is only the third time I’ve seen a one shot per increment seating ladder, the first one I struggled to interpret now with these last two I may or may not be getting the hang of it.
IDK yet

Jim, we are in the same boat. I did not take away much from the target. With only one shot and significant movements on depth each time, all I see is that the gun will hold 3/4 moa (4 inches) within those various seating depth changes at 600 yards. If this repeats and is your goal, I guess you have a lot of room and seating depth will not matter as much for you.

Probably got to shoot a bit better to compete with the serious long range Br shooters- maybe a whole lots better.

In fairness, seemingly, this post is directed more towards the fclass shooters who have more margin for error and no need to stress over getting that last .01 moa out of their load to be successful.

 

[Darwin]

Begins with a good explanation of the accuracy required for fclass, in 2013.

Jim, we are in the same boat. I did not take away much from the target. With only one shot and significant movements on depth each time, all I see is that the gun will hold 3/4 moa (4 inches) within those various seating depth changes at 600 yards. If this repeats and is your goal, I guess you have a lot of room and seating depth will not matter as much for you.

Probably got to shoot a bit better to compete with the serious long range Br shooters- maybe a whole lots better.

In fairness, seemingly, this post is directed more towards the fclass shooters who have more margin for error and no need to stress over getting that last .01 moa out of their load to be successful.

 

[dcali]

I honestly can't 'believe this question keeps coming up. The difference between the best and worst seating depth can be dramatic. The biggest change I've seen was 1.75 MOA vs less than 1/2. That matters no matter what game you're playing.

 

[JFrank]

Jim, we are in the same boat. I did not take away much from the target. With only one shot and significant movements on depth each time, all I see is that the gun will hold 3/4 moa (4 inches) within those various seating depth changes at 600 yards. If this repeats and is your goal, I guess you have a lot of room and seating depth will not matter as much for you.

Probably got to shoot a bit better to compete with the serious long range Br shooters- maybe a whole lots better.

In fairness, seemingly, this post is directed more towards the fclass shooters who have more margin for error and no need to stress over getting that last .01 moa out of their load to be successful.

Thx Charles
I see a good shooting rifle covering .100 in seating depths one shot per increments, within those 20 rounds im seeing two windows to further investigate. Firstly I’m eliminating shots 1,2-7,-9 12-20 because they are jumping around a bit and may not group cleanly at 1000 yards, ( in my set up anyway they’ll likely spit a round) I’ll re test 3,4,5,6 also ( particular focus on >) 10,11’ in smaller increments with in a three shot per increment foremat and hopefully have a good day at the range.

 

[Steve Blair]

Seating depth can cause large changes but some combinations are very tolerant. This target is my .300 WSM with 230 Hybrids across .018" seating depth. Three shot groups at 100 yards. In a later series, this combination held 15 fps ES across 35 shots. There was some light wind and the possibility of shooter error.

 

[Acyr]

I don't think the OP's intent was to say seating depth doesn't matter? At least I hope not. I firmly believe it makes a difference. I look at his target and think dang I need to tighten up my vertical. That could have been a 200-20X. My goal off a FTR bipod is less than .5 moa at 600-1000. F Open shooting off a rest would be half that. You can't get there without nailing down the best seating depth possible. How forgiving it is (wide) comes after that is determined and is only a beneficial byproduct of the bullet, barrel, primer and powder combination.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Seating depth can cause large changes but some combinations are very tolerant. This target is my .300 WSM with 230 Hybrids across .018" seating depth. Three shot groups at 100 yards. In a later series, this combination held 15 fps ES across 35 shots. There was some light wind and the possibility of shooter error.

View attachment 1416707

Sweet! She's hammering!
Bullet shape has something to do with it I'm sure but I've found 30's to be a lot less seating depth sensitive than the small calibers..just my experience

 

[Steve Blair]

Sweet! She's hammering!
Bullet shape has something to do with it I'm sure but I've found 30's to be a lot less seating depth sensitive than the small calibers..just my experience

Well, I was doing a seating depth test and will continue to do them. Not all combinations are this forgiving. It would be very nice if all cartridges behaved like .300 WSM, without the handling problems.