... a difference in rifles that are not expected to produce bench rest accuracy? I am interested in accuracy of course but wonder if it is worth the difference in an off the shelf rifle that has a regular weight barrel. The rifle is a Cooper Western Classic in .243. The stores around here only sell Remington or Winchester brass so I would have to order Lapua thus the question.
Does brass make a difference?
- Thread starter cclawman
- Start date
cclawman said:
That quote is a key part to your question, using that as a basis, I don't think Laupa at it's cost will add significantly to the accuracy.
I've never tried them, those that do will say they last through more re-loadings than common off the shelf brass.
Just hand loading in and of itself usually allows much better accuracy than factory ammo.
If you are looking for accuracy out of your Cooper and they are very accurate, buy the Lapua .243 brass and primer the cases and load them. With Win. or Rem. brass if you are looking for accuracy you should sort the brass by weight and check necks for variations in neck wall thickness at the bare minimum. The lapua saves you time at the reload bench and more time shooting. Theres a cost to everything.
Frank
Frank
cclawman said:
The only thing Lapua is going to give you is very consistent brass, period. It won't give you "B"enchrest results, in itself.
Custom actions, custom barrels, custom bullets, 1 1/2 ounce triggers, load tuning, shooting ability, flag use, etc. all contribute to inordinate accuracy that is not normally associated with an off the shelf rifle or one brand of brass.
Make the most of what you can put together, but don't expect miracles.
Yes, but in a factory rifle probably not much.
Lapua's is the most consistent brand & also the most pricey. At a buck a case they'll last you a lifetime if you mostly hunt.
Norma's good stuff too, maybe a little bit more if you buy a box of 20 to a box where Lapua only sells 100.
Win /R/P / Hornady / Federal are your next choices though the latter two are reported to be a bit softer in the case head so may not last you quite as long but they're significantly less $$.
Lapua's is the most consistent brand & also the most pricey. At a buck a case they'll last you a lifetime if you mostly hunt.
Norma's good stuff too, maybe a little bit more if you buy a box of 20 to a box where Lapua only sells 100.
Win /R/P / Hornady / Federal are your next choices though the latter two are reported to be a bit softer in the case head so may not last you quite as long but they're significantly less $$.
something to say to you to think about.just think about it this way.
1. if you really want the best you can get out of that rifel you will do these thing.read and read some more.buy and buy some more.put the reading and buying togethter more and more.its a mind thing from the start.the more the mind wants the more it gets.just as simple as that.
for me it got to be a money thing.with the more I read.just reading what others had to do or was doing.
2. now if you just want great accuracy or the beast you can get afford.then you will do this.you will read read read and really read some more.by reading and seeing or getting the point out of what you just read will help out more than anything.but buying what you can afford but not getting to over the top you will enjoy it more.
the more I read from they guys has help me out more than money has ever.it takes a site like this one and or a great mentor to really put us where we wnat to be in the reloading world.I have had two great mentors in my life.now I have these guys and there time at the range.
for me yes I have lapua brass for two rifels.mostly because I own two 223's and wanted a different brass for the two.the other was because it was ounce fired brass for a great price.1/2 the price for new.can I say it helped yes.but only with the way I prepared it.just loading it and going shooting no it has not helped out.my reading did the help.like others have said before.if you really put the effort in say win/remmy brass you can make it better.or get the results you want.remember it take what you really want the rifel to do before it will.
not saying all the gadgets and time doesn't help out at all.I have most of them all so.but had to come to my way of thinking of what I wanted my rifels to do for me.and that ment for me to just read more and see what helped me out better than money from my family would have done. don't shoot all the time like most here do.so finding my way was the right way for me.ley your mind and way of wanting a rifel to shoot tell you the same.heck some of the tools do not use anymore.but want do away with them.LOL
again this is just something too think about.and that its my 2 cents on the subject.get what you want it your call.
1. if you really want the best you can get out of that rifel you will do these thing.read and read some more.buy and buy some more.put the reading and buying togethter more and more.its a mind thing from the start.the more the mind wants the more it gets.just as simple as that.
for me it got to be a money thing.with the more I read.just reading what others had to do or was doing.
2. now if you just want great accuracy or the beast you can get afford.then you will do this.you will read read read and really read some more.by reading and seeing or getting the point out of what you just read will help out more than anything.but buying what you can afford but not getting to over the top you will enjoy it more.
the more I read from they guys has help me out more than money has ever.it takes a site like this one and or a great mentor to really put us where we wnat to be in the reloading world.I have had two great mentors in my life.now I have these guys and there time at the range.
for me yes I have lapua brass for two rifels.mostly because I own two 223's and wanted a different brass for the two.the other was because it was ounce fired brass for a great price.1/2 the price for new.can I say it helped yes.but only with the way I prepared it.just loading it and going shooting no it has not helped out.my reading did the help.like others have said before.if you really put the effort in say win/remmy brass you can make it better.or get the results you want.remember it take what you really want the rifel to do before it will.
not saying all the gadgets and time doesn't help out at all.I have most of them all so.but had to come to my way of thinking of what I wanted my rifels to do for me.and that ment for me to just read more and see what helped me out better than money from my family would have done. don't shoot all the time like most here do.so finding my way was the right way for me.ley your mind and way of wanting a rifel to shoot tell you the same.heck some of the tools do not use anymore.but want do away with them.LOL
again this is just something too think about.and that its my 2 cents on the subject.get what you want it your call.
bozo699
Gold $$ Contributor
Dave,
One thing I can definitely say about you is,...you definitely have a way with words.
In a rifle that's guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 and costs what a Cooper Western Classic does it should be illegal to use anything else.
That's a classic right there,......Very true and I agree 100%
Wayne.
One thing I can definitely say about you is,...you definitely have a way with words.
In a rifle that's guaranteed to shoot 1/2" at 100 and costs what a Cooper Western Classic does it should be illegal to use anything else.
That's a classic right there,......Very true and I agree 100%
Wayne.
sorry but you took my point to fare I guess.my point was simple.he did not go as deep as one of ya'll would have gone.he just asked a simple question.my reply was to show that he had a choice to make.
but on one hand have seen right from the factory rifels ( remington ) shoot just as good as a rifel ( cooper ) said in the post.and thats with every day reloaded cases,powder,primers,and bullets with out all the BR put into them.thats why I posted/said what I did.again I do not shoot just as the most of you do.I shoot to please me and reload to please my rifels.so I just gave him something to think about.did alot of the things most BR guys do to load for my rifels.but found out that I just needed t load for me not the piece of papper thats 500-1000 yards away at a match.I have a load for one rifel 223 that holds 1 inch all day at 300 yards.and I think thats pretty darn good for my setup.
sorry if have stepped on your toes.its just that we all or some of use here do not BR shoot like most of you do.just glade to have a site just like this one.lots of great people info when your mentors have passed away.even one was a BR shooter who shoot at 1000 yards.
but on one hand have seen right from the factory rifels ( remington ) shoot just as good as a rifel ( cooper ) said in the post.and thats with every day reloaded cases,powder,primers,and bullets with out all the BR put into them.thats why I posted/said what I did.again I do not shoot just as the most of you do.I shoot to please me and reload to please my rifels.so I just gave him something to think about.did alot of the things most BR guys do to load for my rifels.but found out that I just needed t load for me not the piece of papper thats 500-1000 yards away at a match.I have a load for one rifel 223 that holds 1 inch all day at 300 yards.and I think thats pretty darn good for my setup.
sorry if have stepped on your toes.its just that we all or some of use here do not BR shoot like most of you do.just glade to have a site just like this one.lots of great people info when your mentors have passed away.even one was a BR shooter who shoot at 1000 yards.
I have acheived very good results with Remington and Winchester brass. To get the best results buy it new, full size it, trim it, and debur the flash hole. You may also want to square the primer pockets although I have not found it to be necessary to produce reasonably accurate handloads. Use quality bullets and observe standard good reloading practices.
My varmint rifle reloads routinely group in the 1/2 moa range and my big game rifles in the 3/4" moa range.
My varmint rifle reloads routinely group in the 1/2 moa range and my big game rifles in the 3/4" moa range.
Let me put it this way... if you are looking for places to save money when reloading, brass is not it. By my calculations for 308, yes, the cost of brass is 54% of the cost for that first round of ammunition. After 12 reloads, brass makes up 8.8% of the total cost of components. It is literally cheaper per shot than primers (the second lowest cost).
In Zediker's Precision Reloading book, he makes the argument that by buying Winchester brass and "fixing it," he gets Lapua quality. Then he goes on to argue for using expensive bullets. So he is splurging on the most expensive component and skimping on the cheapest. I love his book, but his justifications make no economic sense.
Get the brass that works best for your application. In a tight chamber, thin-walled Winchester brass might be a good choice because it gives you more case capacity (that you lose from a tight chamber). Lapua, with its thick-walled brass is great for factory chambers. It is also great if you want to turn a little of the neck off since the neck is so thick to start with. I use Lapua because my gun was built around FGMM and Federal brass is about as thick as Lapua, but Federal brass is known for wearing out quickly. The extra firings that I get out of Lapua is worth me not having to do all of the up-front case prep work (sorting and culling, neck turning, etc.) as often.
Make sense?
In Zediker's Precision Reloading book, he makes the argument that by buying Winchester brass and "fixing it," he gets Lapua quality. Then he goes on to argue for using expensive bullets. So he is splurging on the most expensive component and skimping on the cheapest. I love his book, but his justifications make no economic sense.
Get the brass that works best for your application. In a tight chamber, thin-walled Winchester brass might be a good choice because it gives you more case capacity (that you lose from a tight chamber). Lapua, with its thick-walled brass is great for factory chambers. It is also great if you want to turn a little of the neck off since the neck is so thick to start with. I use Lapua because my gun was built around FGMM and Federal brass is about as thick as Lapua, but Federal brass is known for wearing out quickly. The extra firings that I get out of Lapua is worth me not having to do all of the up-front case prep work (sorting and culling, neck turning, etc.) as often.
Make sense?
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