Does anyone thread away from the chuck?

[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks for all the replies. If the lathe is heavy,rpm low and don’t take big cuts into the threads, wouldn’t this work fine? Would carbide be required?

Youll have a thread relief which when coupled with a shoulder for the recoil lug makes even less threads. The only time i thread backwards like that is truing actions when im not 100% on top of things

 

[mram10]

Would it hurt anything to thread away from the shoulder?

 

[Terry]

Not all actions have a recoil lug there.

 

[Papa Charlie]

I have done it when I had my lathe but it is not my favorite way to thread. I have never had an issue with threading into the metal. What I have a problem with is doing something different from what I am use to. Besides, I don't like running the tool upside down where I cannot see it.

 

[ridgeway]

Would it hurt anything to thread away from the shoulder?

Nope...however you get from point a to point b is all that matters. As long as those threads pull the shoulder square against the face of action...your good to go...

 

[Danny1788]

I have done it when I had my lathe but it is not my favorite way to thread. I have never had an issue with threading into the metal. What I have a problem with is doing something different from what I am use to. Besides, I don't like running the tool upside down where I cannot see it.

Use an internal threading tool and thread from behind the tenon and then you can watch it. But still its not the best way to thread in my opinion.

 

[boltman223]

Perhaps I am looking at things wrong as I tain't a 'professional' machinist but I would think it possible if threading away from the chuck you could depending on how heavy of a machine of course end up with 'chatter' on the work piece?? Especially with heavier cuts. Cutter digs into work piece and raises carriage and when chip cuts free the carriage would/could then drop? Rinse and repeat enough to end up with a so so finish? Or am I looking at things wrong. My melon don't work right anymore so I may not be conveying my thoughts properly?

Not the same, but applies to your statemant. I have actually turned parts with the tool upside down to prevent chatter when i could not prevent chatter turning conventionally. I don't know why this works, but it has.

When tbe chip breaks it has already been cut/torn/separated from the material. Pressure is continuous.

 

[Papa Charlie]

Use an internal threading tool and thread from behind the tenon and then you can watch it. But still its not the best way to thread in my opinion.

Not my preference for sure.

 

[carlsbad]

Always thought a guy would loose his man card for threading away from the headstock, we live in a kinder, gentle world today.

This is the real answer. If you want to thread away from the chuck it works fine. You can use boring bar and thread on the far side of the work, avoiding having to do it upside down. Either way works. Away from the chuck eliminates failure modes.

--Jerry

 

[Preacher]

Thanks for all the replies. If the lathe is heavy,rpm low and don’t take big cuts into the threads, wouldn’t this work fine? Would carbide be required?

Carbide don't even like slow !!!!!!!!!

 

[mram10]

Great info guys. Learning tons

 

[AckleymanII]

Carmex Carbide inserts cut beautiful threads at 70 rpm.

Thanks MDM for that tip two years ago!!!

 

[Terry]

Carmex Carbide inserts cut beautiful threads at 70 rpm

Thanks

 

[accuracyman]

I'll add my opinion to the mix but understand I am not a professional gunsmith like some above but I have threaded my fair share of barrels over the years. I thread both directions and each way has it's advantages. I often thread from the shoulder on tight threading jobs like muzzle brakes or cans.

Advantages from shoulder out: You can get just off the shoulder and plunge straight in with your threading tool and set a zero so you can return to the exact spot. Engage your half nuts and you have no worries about crashing a shoulder.
Disadvantages from shoulder out:

• As some mentioned above a risk is when engaging the half nuts you must hit it just right! You have no room for error on the engagement. If you miss your number you are going to mess up your pretty threading job.
• Depending on your lathe you might be concerned with a threaded spindle. Since you are running your machine in reverse you run a risk of your chuck/spider getting loose or even coming off the spindle. Not a concern with the larger machines equipped with camlock chucks. Definately something to think about if using a threaded spindle Southbend or similar equipped machine.
• You will need a left hand threading tool/toolholder. Most of us have a right hand threading tool/toolholder but you will need to purchase or at least grind the appropriate tool so you can get up close and miss the shoulder.

I have not covered everything but at least hit a few things I thought about when trying out the shoulder out threading process. I'm sure I will catch some grief from someone because I forgot something or hit a nerve but that is my opinion. I hope this helps address your original question.

Kris Whitman

Butch you may need to help me....I feel the torches lighting

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Carmex Carbide inserts cut beautiful threads at 70 rpm.

Thanks MDM for that tip two years ago!!!

Wheres my sample? I know my carmex internal full profile kit is the bees knees. Ive always liked em but my friend with the machine shop is a valenite guy so by default so am i.

 

[eddief]

Carbide inserts will cut threads as good as HSS at slow to med speeds on manual machines all day long if you get the right combination of insert and grade. Most people don't do a lot of experimenting with different grades and inserts, simply because of cost, which is understandable.

Well, I bucked the curve and have tried them all over the last ten years. Iscar IC908 is your friend.

I will set up a go fund me page that you all can send funds to. That way i can recoup the lost funds over the experimenting years

 

[shortgrass]

Well if you think about it.. that technique is about production more so than anything.. after all, he is running that lathe pretty fast.. and he is taking off a lot in one cut.. so it is more about speed and getting product done than it is about threading a rifle barrel.. but the nice thing about it is.. with carbide tooling.. it is just another trick in the pocket to use..

Very, very little production work is done on engine lathes, anymore. It is just too time consuming.

Most guys that thread away from the chuck are scared stupid about running into the shoulder......

If you are "scared stupid" about running into the shoulder when threading in the conventional manner, you should be "scared stupid" about using a chambering reamer on a $300+ barrel blank, too.

Disadvantages from shoulder out:

• As some mentioned above a risk is when engaging the half nuts you must hit it just right! You have no room for error on the engagement. If you miss your number you are going to mess up your pretty threading job.
• Depending on your lathe you might be concerned with a threaded spindle. Since you are running your machine in reverse you run a risk of your chuck/spider getting loose or even coming off the spindle. Not a concern with the larger machines equipped with camlock chucks. Definately something to think about if using a threaded spindle Southbend or similar equipped machine.
• You will need a left hand threading tool/toolholder. Most of us have a right hand threading tool/toolholder but you will need to purchase or at least grind the appropriate tool so you can get up close and miss the shoulder.

Kris Whitman

Butch you may need to help me....I feel the torches lighting

Spend some time learning your lathe. It should not take long to learn where to engage the split nut so it doesn't drag before it fully engages. Anyone who would try to run a lathe with a threaded spindle in reverse is probably NOT enough of a mechanic to even attempt to chamber a barrel. You still would need right hand tooling if you turn upside down and away from the shoulder, the chip load will still be on the same side of the tool as it would be if you were threading in the conventional manner.

all the time spent worrying about crashing and figuring out how to not crash coulda been used to learn how to thread properly

This seems to be the real answer, after 2 pages of post on the subject of threading.

 

[Kurz]

all the time spent worrying about crashing and figuring out how to not crash coulda been used to learn how to thread properly

I've threaded thousands of parts and hundreds of barrel manually using both techniques. Neither is right or wrong as it depends on the project and potentially the experience of the operator.

If you'd like to experience a real thrill while threading, try threading a blind hole smaller in diameter than the cylinder at the bottom of a 10" deep cylinder... The solution is to cut a thread relief at the bottom of the hole then thread out.

However, I have finally discovered the best and perfect methodology for cutting threads:

Buy a CNC lathe and learn how to program it. I can thread toward the chuck or shoulder to with a few thousandths of that shoulder without any crashes or worries about crashing whatsoever.

Regards.

 

[shortgrass]

Buy a CNC lathe and learn how to program it. I can thread toward the chuck or shoulder to with a few thousandths of that shoulder without any crashes or worries about crashing whatsoever.

Regards.

When you crash, and you will sooner or later, the cost for the repairs will be 10 times or more than it would be replacing just the tool and maybe a barrel. If you can't 'deal' with manual machinery, the CNC will be way over your head, anyway. It might be computer controlled, but you still have to know something of machining. And, that freakin' computer only does what you tell it to do! If you don't give it (the computer) proper instructions, it either won't 'go' or it'll do exactly what you told it to do, right or wrong............

 

[Kurz]

shortgrass,

Obviously, you missed the emoticons signifying laughter and winking associated with what I wrote. It was written in jest, for fun, not all serious as you implied.

I've been a tool and die maker, machinist and gunmaker for the last 35 years so I know I'm more than qualified to discuss machining and machines. And yes I do own, operate and program CNC machines which I've been doing for the last 30 years. The only time someone crashes is when they haven't availed themselves of all the various safety factors involved in programming and operating one of these machines. Of course, only people educated and trained to program and operate them can understand what this means. The rest is simply supposition.

Regards.