Do you need a viable ALTERNATIVE to lapua 6.5x47 brass? LOOK!!!

[Chuckw]

I just finished up a 6.5x47 for hunting purposes and after figuring out some issues have it all screwed together and shooting. the rifle was designed to be light and has a 20" #2 shilen barrel on it and will eventually be bedded in a B&C Alaskan TI stock. for now it is bolted in a McCrees chassis. the basis for this post isn't the rifle though, it the brass. I had intended to build a 6.5x47 years ago but I didn't like the idea of being married to lapua brass. I know its good and all but Winchester does just fine for me in most circumstances. anyway, what I did was shortened a 308 die about .250. after finding the right setting I can run once fired 22-250 brass through this die and then through a full length 6.5x47 die. what you have is a 6.5x47 with a little more body taper and a little more neck. I then trim them to 1.850 because they shorten a little upon firing. 36gr of re15 and a 140mk yields a perfect 6.5x47 case with a large primer pocket. we can argue all day long about the large vs small primer pocket on ES/SD numbers or their ability to handle pressure but I can tell you this: I have fired these cases over TWENTY times now and finally lost one primer pocket! ES has been running in the teens and SD well under 10fps!!!what I have been shooting is the 140mk at 2680fps average out of a 20" barrel. THIS IS NOT A LIGHT LOAD AND THE PRIMER POCKETS HAVE LASTED OVER 20 SHOTS......I cant compare anything for you VS. lapua brass because I have never had any in this caliber and probably never will. what I can tell you is that this is certainly a viable ALTERNATIVE. let the bashing begin!!!! :


chuck

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I'm impressed... I thought I had shinned a big cat when I made 308 brass out of 30/06 a couple of years ago.

Did you anneal the brass? I found that the body brass of the case was a bit harder than the neck/shoulder and needed annealing after forming because it was really hard by the time I got it necked down.

 

[Chuckw]

no sir, I didn't anneal it. I think the shoulder and most of the body on 22-250 is thin. seating bullets yields a very consistent feel start to finish so I think the necks are uniform in thickness end to end. I would be happy to put a ball mic on it a measure if you are truly interested. the real beauty aside from a seemingly endless supply of 6.5x47 brass is that the once fired 22-250 can be picked up for about $20 a hundred at times! really good brass and 1/5 the cost.............whats not to love?

chuck

 

[mysticplayer]

Nice to see some wildcatting. Been doing it for years and almost always use Win brass. Much of my competition f class is shot with Win brass too.

have you considered using Cream of wheat/Cornmeal to fireform?

I found it an easy and dirt cheap way to form the brass without burning up a barrel. since you are forming a secondary shoulder, that would be easy for you to integrate.

I really find annealing helps with longevity and maintaining the necks. I have a bench source annealer so this job is now a no brainer. Have bumped into 22-250 Win brass which split easily but annealing resolved that in a hurry.

Enjoy...

Jerry

 

[Chuckw]

jerry,

there is no secondary shoulder with this method. the second piece from the left in the pic is where it has been through the shortened .308 die. the third piece is where it has been through the 6.5x47 die and trimmed. the shoulder is 30* and where its supposed to be. I never really had much interest in the COW method since I can do a lot of paper, steel, and animal killing with forming loads. I will keep the annealing in mind. with over 20 loads on the brass without a single spit neck and only one lost primer pocket (still held a primer fine but started leaking a little) I don't see the point at this time. I see this brass going 30 plus loads without issue. the load I am shooting would be considered pretty hot by most standards as well.

chuck

 

[Panzer22]

Pretty much how to make 6xc brass too. Also I have read about people making 6.5 Creedmoor from 22-250 as well... Which to me seems odd.. 22-250 is a little short after turning into 6xc... And 6.5 Creedmoor is longer than 6xc... 6.5x47 Lapua is shorter than a 6xc, so it's probably perfect for that. If you had to trim no more than a few thousands or none, than I would say it is perfect. Winchester brass is uniform thickness shoulder and neck area and won't donut... People that use it for 6xc say the same thing as you, 20 firings plus without a problem. I don't like the thin rim, and the base is a little bit smaller than Norma 6xc. I do have a bunch of 6xc cases I made from 6.5 creedmoor brass. It's great. I have 5 pieces of 6.5x47 lapua brass I am ready to fireform into 6xc as well. They are pretty short though. More of a see what happens affair. one of these days I am going to go full turbo and make some from some lapua 308 Palma brass... That's alot of sizing though and I need more stuff...

 

[gotcha]

No bashing from me Nice job & well thought out. Wouldn't .250 Savage brass give the same end result? Just wondering since I've got about 500 rounds of the stuff & an old .308 die I could modify. Generally speaking, .250 Savage tends to be a bit thicker. Don't know if this would present a problem forming ???

 

[Chuckw]

gotcha,

the .250 brass would probably be even better than 22-250 since the neck would no be worked near as hard during expansion. I used 22-250 because I had it and its cheap to buy once fired. truth be told, almost ANY brass would work with this method if you wanted to neck turn afterward. 22-250 is just straight and simple and I like that!
panzer,

I use 22-250 for 6xc without issue I have just never seen anyone use it for 6.5x47 and I am not sure why! 6xc brass is CHEAP compared to 6.5x47 yet people still form it from 22-250 but don't form the 6.5x47??? there is more than a couple of thousandths to trim but its not too much and its very easy and quick. I also have a creedmoor reamer and thought about going that way but the 6.5x47 fits a short action mag better and the creedmoor ends up being .030 short when formed. I also want the absolute least recoil and the x47 should in theory have the least of the 6.5's. BAD NECK=NO RECOIL!!!!

chuck

 

[mysticplayer]

When tuning for peak LR accuracy, annealing starts to show benefits. Many F class shooters will anneal their brass every 2 to 3 firings. It is not just about neck splits.

Great that the brass comes out almost formed and headspaced properly. That does save a step.

As much as handloading is popular, wildcatting is not. So why bother to make brass if you can buy brass ready to go?

Being a wildcatter, I have seen the benefits of using whatever cases I feel like. Options for supply and reduction of costs are just 2 benefits.

Enjoy your project. I am sure it will inspire others to dust off their die collection and bring new life to brass hiding in the back of the closet.

Good stuff.

Jerry

 

[Chuckw]

jerry,

more than anything I guess, I just like doing things my way! as I stated initially, I can appreciate lapua brass because its good but I certainly don't think its the end all be all of quality brass. I don't think I would sleep at night paying $100 for a hundred pieces of brass when good quality brass can be made for $20 and a little time. I know some will consider the cost of components and add another $20-$25 to the mix, but I generally find a load for forming that it good enough for practice as I am sure you did with your .260 mystic! I know most people don't care about this and will continue to pay for the lapua brass. its just an alternative for those with more time than money.

chuck

 

[2644ever]

Did just that about 7 or 8 years ago, and wrote a few posts about it in this very forum, raising some hell... Anyway I consider .22-250 and .300 Sav to be the best options, and annealing is a must for long term use. What puzzles me is the use of a .308 die whereas a 7mm BR trim die or full length sizer does the same trick with the added benefit of reaching g that .30° angle from the start. Good shooting and enjoy the outstanding strength of those 22-250 case heads.

 

[Chuckw]

what do you consider long term use? I expect at least 30 firings out of this brass. maybe the gradual sizing of the 308 die, which I had on hand by the way, vs the more drastic sizing of the 7br die has something to do with your need to anneal? maybe I should have chambered It in creedmoor and been satisfied with brass .030 short. would have been much less controversial! ;D

chuck

 

[2644ever]

I certainly don't criticize your choice of dies or chambering, I just wanted to mention the existence of over the shelf forming dies. Re long term use, I've noticed that some brands of brass do not age gracefully when no annealing was performed, a few of my perfectly cold formed necks split after a 1 year storage without having ever been fired. Nothing of this sort ever happened will the annealed necks. Brass was Fed and Nor.

 

[Chuckw]

do you anneal before or after forming?

chuck

 

[2644ever]

I do a tiny bit of annealing before, as I just wait for discoloration of brass to start. I need some light softening of the brass, to ease the upsizing part, nothing more as the shoulders could collapse. I do the actual annealing right after sizing, so cases may be stored and loaded later if I don't shoot the whole batch from the same lot.

 

[spclark]

... one of these days I am going to go full turbo and make some from some lapua 308 Palma brass... That's alot of sizing though....

Yes it is! I did just that a couple seasons back just after the stuff became regularly available. Good having a Wilson .243 neck reamer on hand, and a die selection that allowed pushing the shoulder back in stages without taking the neck down to much past 0.265" OD at the same time.

I got a few slight folds in the shoulders at first (after ruining a couple cases entirely) but thru loading & shooting them later learned they'll iron out after awhile & don't seem to affect accuracy.

Loads used were identical to what works in Norma's factory 6XC even with the change in primer size; Wolf KVB-223M & KVB-7.

It's worth doing but takes patience to do right.

 

[Quickoz]

I think I may give this a try for my 6x47L as getting brass for it can be hard at times. Anyone tryed with Lapua 22-250?

 

[Chuckw]

I havnt tried with lapua 22-250 but I have read that it is quite thick in the shoulder area. I believe this would cause some issues that would likely have to be solved with reaming AND turning. anyway, the Winchester brass works superbly, just put a little prep into it and it should serve you quite well.

chuck

 

[gotcha]

Lotsa' good info here from all involved. So nice to be hangin' out with "birds of a feather"

 

[Bogusname]

I could not help it , I had to try it. Although it was a success , the die used was a lee. Lee's have an excess lube port hole in the lower half of the shoulder. When sizing .308 it presses down ontop of it leaving only a faint mark. When you cut .250 off of the base of the die , the brass runs into the hole and gets a nice gouge. I think it will be fine with a little filing. This method is neat but is not justified only because of cost of Lapua brass. I have 1350 rounds through my 6.5. All with my first 50 pieces of Lapua brass. 27 firings and just had two heads start to seperate. I think they may have lasted longer if the redding die had not shaved a little off the web area the first 10 firings. Just my findings and thoughts.