Do we need digital readouts on scope windage and elevation adjustments?

[chkunz]

I'm inexperienced to some and quite capable to others in long range shooting.
What bothers or confuses me?
Why the hell do guys insist on 100 different elevation and windage Christmas tree reticle marks if your going to dial up and down the whole time?
Lol
I find it absolutely fascinating thst all the custom reticle everyone insist on and then they don't use Holdover except for the fine adjustment in clicks between the reticle?

And digital?

Absolutely positively not
Just like modern automobiles.
The more electronics?
The less dependable the product in outside adverse conditions

Thank you for your response. I agree completely with your comment on the complicated and Christmas tree reticle. I want a simple reticle. I did not mean to imply that I want the digital readout within the reticle. I want it on top of the turret. I want to know where my sights are set and easily be confident of changes real time in a match without confusion or complication. The less electronics and the more dependable the better. Best wishes.

 

[chkunz]

Yep...like others, I first zeroed all my riflescopes for elevation/windage at 200 yards, and carefully marked that on my NightForces. Although I maintained a generic ballistic come-up chart (to include wind drift windage settings for 600-1000 yards) for the mid-range distances and the palma match course distances, I kept the actual come-ups on file for the various ranges I visited about the US and overseas...just like I used to maintain my service rifle log book for particular ranges. Gotta do the paperwork for riflescopes, too. So would not ever have a need for digital readouts on my NighForces .

 

[chkunz]

Yep...like others, I first zeroed all my riflescopes for elevation/windage at 200 yards, and carefully marked that on my NightForces. Although I maintained a generic ballistic come-up chart (to include wind drift windage settings for 600-1000 yards) for the mid-range distances and the palma match course distances, I kept the actual come-ups on file for the various ranges I visited about the US and overseas...just like I used to maintain my service rifle log book for particular ranges. Gotta do the paperwork for riflescopes, too. So would not ever have a need for digital readouts on my NighForces .

Thanks for the reply. God bless you with your Nightforce scopes. I do not have one but can you immediately look at one and tell what the settings are, in position in a match? Maybe this is another problem that I have that I can solve by throwing money at the problem. Best wishes.

 

[muleystalker]

Obviuously, some scopes are better (i.e. more "modern") than others. Having lines become visible or get covered up as the turrets are adjusted outwards/inwards is one mechanism to aid in repeatable and correct scope adjustments. My biggest issue is simply that as I've gotten older and my near vision has gone to pot, seeing anything up close is virtually impossible without reading glasses. My contact lens prescription for near sightedness exacerbates this issue greatly. I'm lukewarm about the notion of digital turret readouts. I'd settle for having the vision I had when I was 16 years old. LOL

There are a couple of companies that make a magnifier for the turret on your scope. It goes in the scope tube just like a tube mounted bubble level and has a small magnifying lens that goes in front of the turret. I will try and find them and post a link. Here are a few examples I found.

Turret Magnifier

Turret Magnifier The MK Machining Turret Magnifier easily mounts to your scope tube and provides an approximate 3x magnification allowing for easier viewing of small markings on your rifle scope turrets. Features an easy to remove magnifier which makes changing out lenses a breeze. Includes...

www.mkmachining.com

https://www.amazon.com/MK-Machining-Gen-Turret-Magnifier/dp/B09D3ZQ56V?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Monstrum-Level-Turret-Magnifying-Bubble/dp/B0BT6LWMXD?th=1

 

[Rem06]

absolutely yes!

i am having a hard time seeing my turret numbers without a light and cheater glasses.
a lit digital readout would be awesome!

i am red, orange challenged seeing blends. red or green choice would be awesome

it will give the manufacture another reason to raise prices!

 

[chkunz]

There are a couple of companies that make a magnifier for the turret on your scope. It goes in the scope tube just like a tube mounted bubble level and has a small magnifying lens that goes in front of the turret. I will try and find them and post a link. Here are a few examples I found.

Turret Magnifier

Turret Magnifier The MK Machining Turret Magnifier easily mounts to your scope tube and provides an approximate 3x magnification allowing for easier viewing of small markings on your rifle scope turrets. Features an easy to remove magnifier which makes changing out lenses a breeze. Includes...

www.mkmachining.com

https://www.amazon.com/MK-Machining-Gen-Turret-Magnifier/dp/B09D3ZQ56V?th=1

https://www.amazon.com/Monstrum-Level-Turret-Magnifying-Bubble/dp/B0BT6LWMXD?th=1

That would be worth a try, at least someone is trying to solve the problem.

 

[Krogen]

I keep one of these in my pocket. It's not only small markings and difficulty with close focusing that dog me. It's lighting as well. A good light overcomes some of my vision troubles.

OLIGHT i1R 2 EOS 150 Lumens Tiny Rechargeable Keychain Flashlight EDC Mini LED Keyring Light with Built-in Battery for Camping Hiking Dog Walking etc (Black)

 

[chkunz]

Thanks for the reply. God bless you with your Nightforce scopes. I do not have one but can you immediately look at one and tell what the settings are, in position in a match? Maybe this is another problem that I have that I can solve by throwing money at the problem. Best wishes.

Danny, after re reading my reply it sounds a little snarky and that was not intended. Thanks for your reply. I will take a look at the Nightforce the next time I have the opportunity. I think the problem is a little easier to deal with for prone only shooting, and if the Nighforce is easier to see the graduations then that is one more thing you get for your money. I have Leupold, Hi Lux and Vortex scopes and it is easy to get off by one revolution and the Hi Lux and Vortex have strange numbering systems that add to the confusion. Best wishes.

 

[jelenko]

chkunz
Scopes can be no more difficult that the 'irons' on a service rifle.
To simulate the sights on a service rifle with irons, just set some arbitrary 0 for elevation with the zero stop set at or just below the 100 yard zero. => count clicks for elevation just like the irons. No need to read any numbers.
For windage, essentially the same. Zero the windage knob to the no wind zero. Count clicks right or left - same as iron sight on service rifle. To help see the zero on the windage knob, you could put a witness mark on the knob and the base of the turret.

This does require a scope that has 25 MOA per revolution, a zero stop on the elevation and 'zeroable' windage knobs.

I use a scope on my match rifle for XTC. I like to use the Leupold target turrets with the 15 MOA per rev and the much larger numbers on the knobs.

You might also want to post the question/issue over on the National Match forum where 90% of the members are service rifle competitors.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

The current state of the art in Service Rifle optics is the March 1-4.5X24 with the MTR-D3 reticle. The turrets are 25MO per revolution with 200MOA of adjustment range. There is a simple, yet effective 0-set for the elevation turret. You could set your 200 yard zero as the 0 in the dial, have the 0-set just under it and you would be able to run XTC in the same rotation. The numbers go from 0 to 24 on the dial., just remember which number is for which yardline. 200yds: 0 300yds: 2 1/4 600yds: 9 1/2 1000: 23 1/4.

It's about $100 more than the NF, it has side focus to get perfect focus and parallax at all yard lines ad it weighs about a pound.

D4.5V24TM (MOA, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

White Oak Armament carries them.

 

[Pres100]

The current state of the art in Service Rifle optics is the March 1-4.5X24 with the MTR-D3 reticle. The turrets are 25MO per revolution with 200MOA of adjustment range. There is a simple, yet effective 0-set for the elevation turret. You could set your 200 yard zero as the 0 in the dial, have the 0-set just under it and you would be able to run XTC in the same rotation. The numbers go from 0 to 24 on the dial., just remember which number is for which yardline. 200yds: 0 300yds: 2 1/4 600yds: 9 1/2 1000: 23 1/4.

It's about $100 more than the NF, it has side focus to get perfect focus and parallax at all yard lines ad it weighs about a pound.

D4.5V24TM (MOA, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

White Oak Armament carries them.

Bingo...

 

[Derick549]

Get a scope with a zero stop. I set my 0 at 100 yards. Then just like irons, you know how many clicks to come up for each distance. You don't have to look at or read the turrets. After you shoot 600. Run the elevation back all the way down. And your ready to come back up for the next 200 match, just like irons. You can't do that with a hunting scope, they don't have a hard stop at the bottom. I'm using an Athlon. It's illuminated, and it works fine. But I may change in a couple of years.

 

[chkunz]

The current state of the art in Service Rifle optics is the March 1-4.5X24 with the MTR-D3 reticle. The turrets are 25MO per revolution with 200MOA of adjustment range. There is a simple, yet effective 0-set for the elevation turret. You could set your 200 yard zero as the 0 in the dial, have the 0-set just under it and you would be able to run XTC in the same rotation. The numbers go from 0 to 24 on the dial., just remember which number is for which yardline. 200yds: 0 300yds: 2 1/4 600yds: 9 1/2 1000: 23 1/4.

It's about $100 more than the NF, it has side focus to get perfect focus and parallax at all yard lines ad it weighs about a pound.

D4.5V24TM (MOA, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

White Oak Armament carries them.

That is a really good looking scope and a great looking recital for XTC, all you need without the distractions of other Christmas tree recitals. Also the ring is the right size to simulate aperture sights. I guess the price is you get what you pay for and the best is never cheap.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

It's a very nice, very solid scope with everything that you want and nothing that's not needed. It was designed for the SR discipline. The D3 reticle was finalized after discussions with, and reviews from HM Service Rifle shooters.

 

[CharlieNC]

You can use an online program to design and print a turret label to your liking in terms of size, color, number of divisions, etc. I wear readers and this eliminated the problem for me.

 

[jelenko]

The current state of the art in Service Rifle optics is the March 1-4.5X24 with the MTR-D3 reticle. The turrets are 25MO per revolution with 200MOA of adjustment range. There is a simple, yet effective 0-set for the elevation turret. You could set your 200 yard zero as the 0 in the dial, have the 0-set just under it and you would be able to run XTC in the same rotation. The numbers go from 0 to 24 on the dial., just remember which number is for which yardline. 200yds: 0 300yds: 2 1/4 600yds: 9 1/2 1000: 23 1/4.

It's about $100 more than the NF, it has side focus to get perfect focus and parallax at all yard lines ad it weighs about a pound.

D4.5V24TM (MOA, Tactical) | MARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design CorporationMARCH Scopes | DEON Optical Design Corporation

MARCH Scopes Official Site

marchscopes.com

White Oak Armament carries them.

WOA also cares their own service rifle scope and will do all the things asked about. They even have a set of knobs if you want to use 'clicks' instead of MOA.

 

[topclass2017]

Let me explain how I do it when I shoot a Palma course in F-class.

The distances in SR are 200/300/600, from what I remember. In F-Class, it would be 300/500/600 or 800/900/1000.
For a 300/500//600, I would set my 0-stop right below the 300 yard distance and set the 0 on the dial to correspond to the actual 300 zero. Then I would have a little chart that would give me the come-ups from 300 to 500, and then 500 to 600. I would also have the come-ups from 300 to 600. (No need to do arithmetic in the middle of the match.) These come-ups would be validated of course. Start with JBM values and refine with actual shooting.

So at the first match at 300, my scope would be at the 0 stop and the 0. The come up from 300 to 500 would be something like 4 1/4 MOA. So, going to the 500 yard line, I would click up 4 1/4 MOA. Then going to 600, that would be another 2MOA or 6 1/4 MOA from 300 (0 stop).

200/300/600 should all be within the same rotation, starting at 0.

If I got confused, I would just wind down to 0 stop and 0 and dial in my position. I made it a standard to dial the come-ups for the next stage after finishing the current one. At the end of the day, I would dial back down to the 0 stop and 0.

followed the same procedure for years shooting smallbore silhouette, including changing elevation before moving to the next distance. I had a piece of tape on the side of my scope with come-ups for reference, so I could do a gut check before the string. All scope changes were within one revolution of the elevation knob which also helped...

 

[chkunz]

followed the same procedure for years shooting smallbore silhouette, including changing elevation before moving to the next distance. I had a piece of tape on the side of my scope with come-ups for reference, so I could do a gut check before the string. All scope changes were within one revolution of the elevation knob which also helped...

 

[JLittle]

Clyde, Warner Sights are about as absolute as you can get. I can’t see the adjustments on them without a magnifying glass anymore. I do about the same for my anyrifles with a scope. I set the zero-zero for a prescribed yard line. Typically 100 and count up by revolutions. Example. 0 + however many Minutes. Or 1 revolution + however many minutes. I use Leupolds and only shoot long range anymore. For whatever it’s worth.
Hope your doing well.
Regards, Jack Little.

 

[chkunz]

Clyde, Warner Sights are about as absolute as you can get. I can’t see the adjustments on them without a magnifying glass anymore. I do about the same for my anyrifles with a scope. I set the zero-zero for a prescribed yard line. Typically 100 and count up by revolutions. Example. 0 + however many Minutes. Or 1 revolution + however many minutes. I use Leupolds and only shoot long range anymore. For whatever it’s worth.
Hope your doing well.
Regards, Jack Little.

Jack, good to hear from you. I do what you describe except I do not set the zero stop which others have recommended. Seeing the adjustment markings is my big problem. It gets tedious and frustrating at times but it is doable. I just wish I had something more user friendly but it looks like it does not exist. Best wishes Clyde.