Do it yourself Stock making thread

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Josh B

Question for you,

Does a multi layer (Plywood type) laminated stock require different tools or router bits?
I will be following along very closely.

Thank you for this thread.

Tia,
Don

 

[joshb]

While I was in gunsmith school I watched as many did exactly that. They bought low cost, straight grain blanks 'cause they were afraid they'd make a mistake. The trouble was, when they were finished they had a 'custom made', plain Jane stock. If you laminate layers together you have to be darned confident in your process. Put the time into 'learning the technique' and then having the laminations separate wouldn't be good. GOOD gunstock wood is not only 'dried', it is aged. Wood from the lumber yard has no 'age'. A blank that has been dried and 'aged' for 8-10yrs. is stable. And the stability is what you want. Having a 'young' blank go to shifting around after you have many hours invested would be as bad as having laminations separate, and much more likely to happen.

I respect the way you learned. Old school methods make a person appreciate modern power tools. I had a friend go to a "wood working school" vacation. He spent the first three days learning to sharpen a chisel and the next four learning how to chisel a mortise. Nothing wrong with that.
I'm afraid you're working on a little "disinformation" on the process but the "intent" is sound. Fast drying or "kiln dried" wood has a different look and color than "air dried" wood. Walnut usually has a deeper, richer color when air dried. Air drying thick lumber takes a long time and that's where the "aged" concept comes from. Kiln drying also takes the wood down to 7 to 10% moisture content. Normal atmospheric environments usually bring that back up to about 14% over time which is about where long term air drying gets you. Most woods move a little as they gain and lose moisture content thru the seasons.In the end of all the "prognostication" it is accepted that the best wood for stocks is air dried. I really don't want to influence anybody's choice. I can only offer the laminated as a cheap and available alternative. I'm making one. And....no. Laminated stocks are worked with the same tools. I'm trying to get one in "Bumble Bee" or maybe it's called "Yellow jacket" but I'm having trouble with Boyd's site.

 

[joshb]

Anyway, back on track. Helpful jigs. I made two flat support jigs to clamp my blank in, to give me a wide flat surface for the router and for clamping the guides to. They're simple to do. I made them 6" X 6" X 30" long for working on my typically 6" blanks. If your blank is 7" tall, then make the jig 7" tall. Make sure they are "square" and all the upright support edges are flush to the top and bottom. I used birch plywood I had on hand. Any stable wood will work, really. They just need to be uniform, straight and flat! You also need a nice smooth surface to make marks on. I also made a jig to hold my blank square in my drill press. I recommend the short bar clamps in the picture, too. They're cheap and easy to use. You also need at least two 18" bar clamps for clamping the stock into your jig. I use 4 but I'm a little over cautious.
Guides: You need 2 straight edges to clamp to your work surface. After trying boards for my first stock, I got the 4" wide, 1/4" aluminum stock as an upgrade. A piece of 1/2 inch ply with a hardwood edge would work, also. It just needs to be durable and straight and at least 36" long.

 

[hunter243sgk]

You can do it anyway you want. I did mention "I ain't got college". If some one has a better way, chime in!

I put that laminated blank up for a specific reason. 3/4" lumber is available almost anywhere. I think using 1/4" layers would look spiffy but I'd have to cut those myself. The hobby stores charge way to much for 1/4" stock. Some guys may not have easy access to a solid blank. Some guys may not want to use a $1000 blank for thier first try.

I am thinking about running my 3/4" boards through my planner to get them down to 1/4". And then using them glued and pinned together.

 

[joshb]

I am thinking about running my 3/4" boards through my planner to get them down to 1/4". And then using them glued and pinned together.

Hey Randall: you can double your output if you split them. Having a jointer and a planer opens more possibilities. If you set your table saw blade to it's highest cutting height, you should be able to "split" a 3/4 in.X 5 1/2 in. board. Cut one edge, flip it and cut thru the other edge. The cuts will meet in the middle. Your blade will take an eighth inch, leaving you with two 5/16 boards. Plane the cut side and you'll get 1/4, if your cuts are good.Just use a feather board and watch the fingers. I bought one of the small 12 1/2 in. Dewalt table top planers. It works great for the little stuff. I'll be doing a 1/4" laminate stock sometime in the future. Right now, I have a good stash of 2" walnut on hand.

 

[joshb]

Josh,

Should be a very interesting thread. What with my great wood working skills (not) this should be fun.

Paul

www.boltfluting.com

Hey Paul: I'm glad you're joining in. Be brave! This is going to take you out of your comfort zone.

Cigarcop: You may continue "dropping pebbles" from on high. Just be careful. Peasant uprisings have occurred throughout history. It usually doesn't go well for the elite.

 

[joshb]

Things to "order":
Pillars and bedding compound: Part of this build will include pillar bedding the barreled action in the stock. I found out that pillar bedding the action actually makes building the stock easier. The pillars set the depth for the bottom metal cut. You can opt out of this step, but then you'll have to be very careful with the bottom metal inlet depth measurements and go thru some trial and error, test fitting, etc. until it's right. The pillars can be bought from Midway or Brownells for around $12 and they are action specific so you don't have to worry about cutting them to the correct length.

I'll leave the choice of bedding compound to you, but I'll add this. On my first couple, I used West System epoxy and filler that I had left over from my boat building days. It worked for me. You can get it in small "repair packets" that don't cost a lot. If you go this route, let me know. I have a jug of the "filler" and I can send you a small Baggie full so you don't have to buy a jug. I have switched to Devcon.

KMW Loggerhead ACP hardware: In my opinion, this is the best hardware on the market. It's easy to move, remove and replace the cheek piece. It has a c-clip that can be set to hold your favorite height. It's subtle, strong, fairly easy to install and it's cheap. Around $55 dollars a set. I use the epoxy mix to lock it into the stock.

 

[hoz53]

We're back on! I showed my dog a picture of Hillary and she puked. I have the pattern back!

Things to "order":
Pillars and bedding compound: Part of this build will include pillar bedding the barreled action in the stock. I found out that pillar bedding the action actually makes building the stock easier. The pillars set the depth for the bottom metal cut. You can opt out of this step, but then you'll have to be very careful with the bottom metal inlet depth measurements and go thru some trial and error, test fitting, etc. until it's right. The pillars can be bought from Midway or Brownells for around $12 and they are action specific so you don't have to worry about cutting them to the correct length.

I'll leave the choice of bedding compound to you, but I'll add this. On my first couple, I used West System epoxy and filler that I had left over from my boat building days. It worked for me. You can get it in small "repair packets" that don't cost a lot. If you go this route, let me know. I have a jug of the "filler" and I can send you a small Baggie full so you don't have to buy a jug. I have switched to Devcon.

KMW Loggerhead ACP hardware: In my opinion, this is the best hardware on the market. It's easy to move, remove and replace the cheek piece. It has a c-clip that can be set to hold your favorite height. It's subtle, strong, fairly easy to install and it's cheap. Around $55 dollars a set. I use the epoxy mix to lock it into the stock.

Hi Josh Ill post my questions here instead of PMing you about this project so it hopefully helps other people.

1. I have some hackberry that I cut down when building my shop. Its been air drying for 3 years or so under my bench. Seems very dense- Would this be a decent wood to use?

2. Ive got to try and understand How to use the jig you made and I am wondering if I could use a mill instead for some of the operations?

if you want a wider forend than 2-1/4 like say 3" how does it get there if your blank is only 2-1/4 ? I was just going to make a 3" blank. Mabie i dont have to?

I am fortunate to have several sources for wood around here. Ill measure the hackberry tomorrow and get ready to glue it up while waiting for teachers reply Thanks

 

[joshb]

Good idea, Hoz: I should do a "broad strokes" outline. It's a good idea to point things out here and ask for clarification. I'll try not to respond with "Isn't it obvious?"

When I got the idea in my head to try building a stock, I went to my shop and took a Tikka Master Sporter apart and studied the stock for a while. Tikka stopped making them and the design needed some tweaking to suit my tastes. I put together a rough plan on how to form it using the basic tools I had in my shop. I didn't want to buy machinery for what could be a one time deal, so the tools are very basic. Ggmac has been nudging me to buy a duplicator but they're a thousand bucks. This method may be a little slower but I have time.

Most of the cuts are done with a router, using the various bits. The jig just gives you a flat surface to run the router on and to clamp your guides to. The cutting process is staged to use the flat surfaces of the blank itself where needed.

The first thing you do is look at your blank and decide which way is up, butt and forend. Prettier grain in the butt, please. Trace your pattern on the blank and locate and drill your action screw holes. These holes are the benchmarks for the rest of the build. Then you clamp it in your jig. You use the straight edges to trap and guide your router for the various cuts. I nail or clamp 1/4" "stops" between the straight edges where necessary for the action cuts, recoil lug, trigger slot, mag well, etc.


You keep the blank in the jig until your barreled action fits in the stock and you're satisfied with everything.
At this point, I bed the action.

Since I used pillars, my cut depth for my bottom metal is now set. Since I marked my action screw centers all the way around my blank, I can cut my blank for the bottom metal install. I don't follow the stock lines yet. I cut close to the line but make a flat cut so I can use my jig for the bottom metal cut, check for fit and clean it up with chisels and maybe a Dremel tool.




So that covers the jig use. Now, you're left with forming the outside of the stock. We'll get into the details later, but Hoz asked about the forend width. At this stage, you have nice flat sides. You cut the final stock lines on the forend and make your decision on width. On some of my stocks, I glued a 1/2" thick piece to each side of the forend. On some others, I removed an 1/8 inch from each side of the action area and kept the forend skinny. On one, I glued Ebony to the forend. I just bought a piece of palmwood to try on a forend. I almost did a "hammerhead" on one forend but decided not to. You can make your width as wide as you want to and remove some later if you change your mind. I had completely finished the stock I added an inch to, decided it was too wide and put it thru the planer to narrow it down. The sky is the limit. You can change the dimensions or design any way that fits your fancy. That's the fun part. You create whatever YOU want.

Hackberry? I don't know much about it so I googled it. Seems to be ok for the purpose. I tried some EPE for a couple stocks but I don't like it. It's heavy and chips easily. I'm finishing one now for my Kodiak 30br build and that will be the last time I use it. You can try the Hackberry and tell us how it goes. The old rule is a "year per inch" so if your shop is dry it should be ok to use. I'd cut a piece off and check it with a moisture meter.
We're back to the question Shortgrass brought up. Do you start with a nice blank on the first one? Your call. I just grabbed the first piece on top of my stack for my first one. When I discovered how pretty the grain was, I was a nervous nilly, working on it. I didn't want to screw it up! I think that if you're only going to do one, do a nice one. I'll be here to hold your hand. Slow and steady is the way to go.

I recently reworked the cheek piece on it. See that angled piece of walnut, this side of the ebony forend? Missed cut! I measured wrong. That's a patch.

If any one has any questions, ask away! Here or by PM. Josh

 

[hunter243sgk]

Great pics!! Way before i had talked to you i thought about building a jig. But wasnt sure the best way to do it. Yours is a great idea. I have some 90 degree aluminum stock that should be straight enough to use as my router guides. I really like your pics and info. Thanks so much for taking the time to post all of this!!

 

[hoz53]

Good idea, Hoz: I should do a "broad strokes" outline. It's a good idea to point things out here and ask for clarification. I'll try not to r espond with "Isn't it obvious?"

When I got the idea in my head to try building a stock, I went to my shop and took a Tikka Master Sporter apart and studied the stock for a while. Tikka stopped making them and the design needed some tweaking to suit my tastes. I put together a rough plan on how to form it using the basic tools I had in my shop. I didn't want to buy machinery for what could be a one time deal, so the tools are very basic. Ggmac has been nudging me to buy a duplicator but they're a thousand bucks. This method may be a little slower but I have time.

Most of the cuts are done with a router, using the various bits. The jig just gives you a flat surface to run the router on and to clamp your guides to. The cutting process is staged to use the flat surfaces of the blank itself where needed.

The first thing you do is look at your blank and decide which way is up, butt and forend. Prettier grain in the butt, please. Trace your pattern on the blank and locate and drill your action screw holes. These holes are the benchmarks for the rest of the build. Then you clamp it in your jig. You use the straight edges to trap and guide your router for the various cuts. I nail or clamp 1/4" "stops" between the straight edges where necessary for the action cuts, recoil lug, trigger slot, mag well, etc.
View attachment 1006020

You keep the blank in the jig until your barreled action fits in the stock and you're satisfied with everything.
At this point, I bed the action.
View attachment 1006027
Since I used pillars, my cut depth for my bottom metal is now set. Since I marked my action screw centers all the way around my blank, I can cut my blank for the bottom metal install. I don't follow the stock lines yet. I cut close to the line but make a flat cut so I can use my jig for the bottom metal cut, check for fit and clean it up with chisels and maybe a Dremel tool.

View attachment 1006031
View attachment 1006030

So that covers the jig use. Now, you're left with forming the outside of the stock. We'll get into the details later, but Hoz asked about the forend width. At this stage, you have nice flat sides. You cut the final stock lines on the forend and make your decision on width. On some of my stocks, I glued a 1/2" thick piece to each side of the forend. On some others, I removed an 1/8 inch from each side of the action area and kept the forend skinny. On one, I glued Ebony to the forend. I just bought a piece of palmwood to try on a forend. I almost did a "hammerhead" on one forend but decided not to. You can make your width as wide as you want to and remove some later if you change your mind. I had completely finished the stock I added an inch to, decided it was too wide and put it thru the planer to narrow it down. The sky is the limit. You can change the dimensions or design any way that fits your fancy. That's the fun part. You create whatever YOU want.

Hackberry? I don't know much about it so I googled it. Seems to be ok for the purpose. I tried some EPE for a couple stocks but I don't like it. It's heavy and chips easily. I'm finishing one now for my Kodiak 30br build and that will be the last time I use it. You can try the Hackberry and tell us how it goes. The old rule is a "year per inch" so if your shop is dry it should be ok to use. I'd cut a piece off and check it with a moisture meter.
We're back to the question Shortgrass brought up. Do you start with a nice blank on the first one? Your call. I just grabbed the first piece on top of my stack for my first one. When I discovered how pretty the grain was, I was a nervous nilly, working on it. I didn't want to screw it up! I think that if you're only going to do one, do a nice one. I'll be here to hold your hand. Slow and steady is the way to go.
View attachment 1006034
I recently reworked the cheek piece on it.See that angled piece of walnut, this side of the ebony forend? Missed cut! That's a patch.

If any one has any questions, ask away! Here or by PM. Josh

For me to be frank about it For the first one I was going to go to the lumber yard get 2 -2x8s of construction lumber and glue them together. Cheap and it's practice not a heirloom I'm making for the King. I'll try to get something a little better for this though. There are a lot of woodworkers around here and so the wood availability is good.

 

[joshb]

Ok. When choosing your straight edge's width, think about your clamp throat. My router bases are 5 3/4 inches round (Porter Cable) and 6" round (Bosch) For my Bosch, center is 3" . For the barrel channel cut, I'm going right down the center of my blank. Half of my 2 1/4 blank is 1 1/8 so the outside edge of my router base will be 1 7/8" onto my jig and 4 1/8" in from the outside edge of my 6" wide jig top. Any cuts on the outside edge of my blank will put my base 3 1/8 from the outside edge. That's why I settled on 4" wide straight edges.

 

[joshb]

For me to be frank about it For the first one I was going to go to the lumber yard get 2 -2x8s of construction lumber and glue them together. Cheap and it's practice not a heirloom I'm making for the King. I'll try to get something a little better for this though. There are a lot of woodworkers around here and so the wood availability is good.

I'd be grabbing one of those highly figured cherry slabs from msinc! (The cupped one) and look for some more leg material else where.
I thought it might be helpful to show you the 30 br Kodiak stock I'm working on. It has an internal magazine for Hunter Benchrest. Just another variation of the design.

 

[teele1]

Its kinda funny Josh, I asked Gary yesterday IF he made a pattern of that stock before he sold the rifle Dang it he didn't. He's my life line to the many thing I can't do and what a GREAT guy he is.
Your work is a work of art.
Thanks for posting all you are.
jim

 

[joshb]

Hey Jim! I can solve that! I have Gary's address somewhere around here. I'll send him a pattern and YOU tell him to make you a copy. Technically, I'm not copying Gary's 22-250 Master Sporter. I'm copying a 308 Master Sporter I bought on Gunbroker. Send me your address and I'll send you a copy too. Gary might "lose" his.

 

[hoz53]

Hey Jim! I can solve that! I have Gary's address somewhere around here. I'll send him a pattern and YOU tell him to make you a copy. Technically, I'm not copying Gary's 22-250 Master Sporter. I'm copying a 308 Master Sporter I bought on Gunbroker. Send me your address and I'll send you a copy too. Gary might "lose" his.

Hi Josh. Ok I didn't see the blank in the jig before, now that I do it makes sense how it works. For doing the inletting until the rifle fits in the blank I'm going to use a mill. Mabie I should not talk about that on this thread as no sense confusing things? Anyway I could figure out how to get the rifle inletted in the blank myself but I'm still learning little tid bits a long the way. What I really want to know is
How to shape the outside of the stock. Thanks Hoz

 

[joshb]

I'd like to see some pics of the mill in use. I've never been close to one. I don't get out much. I'm always interested in finding a better way. Stay tuned on shaping the outside. It's very easy until you do the grip and then it's only mildly difficult the first time.

 

[Ggmac]

Josh , AMAZING. I can send you a pic of a modified large drill press I used for in letting before I purchased the duplicator . I mounted 2 cross slides on the table to allow a single long cut . It worked so well I still use it when I copy the exterior of one stock but need the inlet of another action .
Keep up the great knowledge sharing post .
Gary

 

[hoz53]

I'd like to see some pics of the mill in use. I've never been close to one. I don't get out much. I'm always interested in finding a better way. Stay tuned on shaping the outside. It's very easy until you do the grip and then it's only mildly difficult the first time.

I will put some pics here tonite. I just use a mill drill. It's not to great a machine for metal but has worked good for me for the little bit of stock work I have done. Only prob with it right now is I don't have high rpm but I am working on that. Works really nice for cleaning up bedding jobs which is all I've used it for but I've seen R Franklin videos of him inletting a stock in the same way. I just used it to fit a Rem 783 to a savage inlet B&C tactical medalist. I picked my wood out of the pile last nite. Will send pics of that to. I need to get the dimensions of some of the stocks I like otherwise I'll just have to do it by trial and error. Thanks Much. Hoz

 

[hoz53]

I'd like to see some pics of the mill in use. I've never been close to one. I don't get out much. I'm always interested in finding a better way. Stay tuned on shaping the outside. It's very easy until you do the grip and then it's only mildly difficult the first time.

Okay Im tired and gotta hit the hay. Heres some pics of the wood Im going to use for this project and my mill set up to work on stocks. Tomorrow Ill read some more on this thread and add more. That junk mill drill will still hold .001 for the length of the stock.

I just set this stock in for a display it isnt leveled yet.