Distance to lands question

[oldduc]

I have been using the Hornday L&L tool with the modified case, I compare a fully FF case to the modified case by way of a Wilson case gauge, the headspace is almost identical. Just lucky perhaps however I'm getting a repeatable jamb number as a starting point.
Now if I had a custom action that stripped easier than Savage or more confidence in my ability I would use the Wheeler method.
J

You can size the modified case the same as any other case, so it matches your FL die.
~Gary

 

[Fotheringill]

I'm thinking the neck tension is screwing things up.
Now if you were to take a dremel tool and put 2-3 vertical slits in the sized neck would be a different story.
With the method I use your bullet may get stuck in the rifling tap but of rifle on floor or use a cleaning rod to dis lodge.

BTW- If you need to use a rod, take off the jag first and be aware that you may mess up the threading on the rod. I use a long thin dowel from a crafts store OR an old rod that has no threading since it broke off a while ago.

 

[tenring]

I have tried all of these methods. The Wheeler is good, but you need to remove the FP. I keep the ejector in but press it backward when withdrawing the bolt.

Best method: Drill holes into two 1.5" diameter x 2"long aluminum cylinders. Wood dowels are easier to make. ( I purchased these long time ago from someone, don't remember who). Then thread a hole thru center of each and insert a keyed thumb screw of same diameter and pitch in those holes. Drop bullet in chamber, use small dowel to lightly push bullet forward and at same time, insert cleaning rod from muzzle. By pushing lightly each end, you can feel where bullet stops. Measure distance between the cylinders with caliper and that is your touch point.

Whatever method you use, do it at least 5 times and average the result. Seat dummy in sized case to that depth, insert in chamber, and look for land marks.

 

[PAshooter20BR]

This question comes to mind a lot. Typically I see 50-70/1000 difference from Stoney point to the video method. I use the video. But everyone’s talking about jumping bullets and at lands and we aren’t talking the same language based on our original measurements.

 

[mikeeg02]

Have you measure the head space between a fired case and your stoney point gauge?

Secondly, are you using the same bullet every time?

Edit: .050" is a lot. What are you using to measure?

 

[Bc'z]

This question comes to mind a lot. Typically I see 50-70/1000 difference from Stoney point to the video method. I use the video. But everyone’s talking about jumping bullets and at lands and we aren’t talking the same language based on our original measurements.

I agree
I have 2 rifles that distance to the lands really is a mute point due to magazine restrictions.
Remington 700 VTR nosler method 2.87"coal Mag length 2.83, shoots great at
2.80 with 130 berger OTM match hybrid.
Ruger American 6.5 creedmoor
Nosler method 2.89 coal
Mag length 2.8315 shooting berger 140 vld
143 amaz at this length.
So knowing what the distance to the lands is important for data, but doesn't mean squat if they dont fit magazine for a repeater.
Sometimes we need to find what jump shoots best for a specific powder/bullet
combination.

 

[PAshooter20BR]

Yea I have checked headspace between fired and Stoney point case Gages. I personally think it’s difficult to push that bullet forward into the rifling until you feel resistance and tighten the nut. You can change by a bunch just how hard you push. If the bullet sticks in the rifling one time and u have to bump the stock but doesn’t the second try your not being consistent. If the bullet sticks I think your pushing to hard. I have found what I said to hold true over the course of many custom setups I have messed with. The bolt closing/video method always seems to yield a shorter oal than the Stoney point. My gunsmith would set Bullets at the lands for me each time he did a chamber. I would come home and try to duplicate his numbers and always got something different. I trusted him so I used his numbers. Eventually I asked him how the heck he made the dummy’s and he showed me. Haven’t looked back since.

 

[muleman69]

BTW- If you need to use a rod, take off the jag first and be aware that you may mess up the threading on the rod. I use a long thin dowel from a crafts store OR an old rod that has no threading since it broke off a while ago.

Dowel is a great idea as I have managed to damage rods and bullet tips in the past

 

[Bc'z]

I've never had one stick that bad.
Generally just a tap of the stock on the floor will free it up.
I always use the test bullet for initial seating die set up, and fowler round.

 

[Fotheringill]

Dowel is a great idea as I have managed to damage rods and bullet tips in the past

If using a dowel, make sure you patch out any splinters after use.

 

[muleman69]

If using a dowel, make sure you patch out any splinters after use.

I'm trying to think of something I can cover the dowel tip with? maybe something plastic or brass pistol round with primer removed?

 

[JFrank]

I'm trying to think of something I can cover the dowel tip with? maybe something plastic or brass pistol round with primer removed?

No need,
Wood dowel shouldn't hurt a thing I use them all the time

 

[Boyd L.]

I'm trying to think of something I can cover the dowel tip with? maybe something plastic or brass pistol round with primer removed?

Replacement black powder ramrod. Cut to desired length, sand edges lightly.

 

[BCBRAD]

Seems unnecessarily complicated.

I seat a bullet into a sized case, load it into the rifle , extract, measure base to ogive or COL. Load again and measure. Do this until the measurement is the same each time (takes 3-4 cycles). This is the base to lands distance. From here you can set what ever distance off you want.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Seems unnecessarily complicated.

I seat a bullet into a sized case, load it into the rifle , extract, measure base to ogive or COL. Load again and measure. Do this until the measurement is the same each time (takes 3-4 cycles). This is the base to lands distance. From here you can set what ever distance off you want.

That is exactly what I did and got those crazy long measurements. That had everybody thinking the bullets were jamming hard even though they were not sticking/stuck in the barrel. I have heard of guys having bullets hard jammed and having to extract for some reason pulling the bullet out and filling their action with gun powder.

 

[muleman69]

Replacement black powder ramrod. Cut to desired length, sand edges lightly.

Great idea ,thanks

 

[Boyd L.]

Great idea ,thanks

I never had an original idea in my life. I'm not smart enough.....but I am smart enough to steal every good one I come across.

 

[DennisH]

I have never used a "no go-gauge". I have always put a piece of clear shipping tape on the "go-gauge" and all has been perfect for years.

I always use my fired brass as I have the tap & die to make a "Stoney Point" case.

I have used my fired brass for both gauges setting headspace.

I alway remove the extractor and ejector as it make the process much easier and accurate giving results consistently under .002, with many being closer than this.

Some bullets are responsible for the few thousandths difference.

FWIW, I use the "case neck split" method in determining how much of the bullet I want in the case neck. Very easy process. I also have throating reamers. After I decide which bullet is best for my barrel, I throat the chamber so the bullet is making contact with 100% of the neck, +/- a few thousands. Some barrels like the bullet 'jammed", and some like being .080 off! My goal is to have close to .002 neck tension for match rifles, and .004 for semi's.

JMO, Dennis

 

[justinp61]

From my limited experience and in my small mind it seems the method is not as important as repeatability. Several years ago I bought a Hornady OAL tool and a tap to so I could use my brass and not pay the stupid price for modified cases. I couldn't get consistent results with it so I split the neck on a case and used my bullet comparator set and the results are much more consistent.

IMHO the distance to the lands is just a number (yes I understand needing to know it and chasing the lands with throat erosion), but my numbers have no relevance in anyone else's rifle. Once you have it you just work up or down off that baseline to either jam or jump and monitor the throat.

I like to keep things simple, your mileage may vary.

 

[okie]

my 2cents--I dont need repeatability, just need a starting point---throats gonna wash out over time and lengthen.
I get my own "hard jam" and test from there. From then on it is just seating die micrometer adjustments...