Differences between H 4350 and IMR 4350

[Catfur]

Hodgdon does not own the old Dupont plant in Canada, they do own the trademark "IMR." General Dynamics (the defense conglomerate) does (they also own the St. Marks facility in FL). Several companies sell powder produced at the Canadian plant, the Accurate stick powders are produced there, as well.

 

[Laurie]

IMR's history on its website is a bit ambiguous. It says:

Hodgdon Powder Company purchased IMR® Powder Company in October 2003. Hodgdon Powder Company offices are located at 6231 Robinson in Overland Park, Kansas. IMR powders continue to be manufactured to the same exacting performance criteria and quality assurance standards that shooters have come to expect.

which I've always taken to be it bought the lot, lock stock & barrel. But on reflection, it could also mean it bought the company name alone without any production facilities.

I've seen it said more than once that the former IMR, Canada plant is owned by General Dynamics, but have Googled GD several times and never found any mention of it. Under the 'Commercial propellants' heading in the full GD group production and products listings, GD only lists the former Olin Corp. St. Marks Powder facility.

http://www.gd-ots.com/commercial_powder.html

However, going at it again from multiple angles, I've finally unearthed a link through Googling manufacturers in this part of Canada and find you're correct Catfur, so thanks for the hint and spur to look again.

http://www.gd-otscanada.com/html/en/about/industrial_valleyfield.php

(It appears the plant was owned by an outfit called Expro at the time of purchase.) I did wonder who makes Accurate extruded powders these days since it was bought by Western Powders and the contracts with Explosia in the Czech Republic were terminated. I had thought that Valleyfield might be their source.

We don't get the 'new' Accurate propellants in the UK as they've never been imported. We get most Ramshot grades direct from the Belgian manufacturing plant including a 'Europe only' product called Ramshot Wild Boar which from the loads data appears to be the same thing as 'new' Accurate 2520. We also still get most of the 'old' Accurate grades under the European Lovex name including what was AA-4064 (Lovex SO62), AA-4350 (SO70) and AA-3100 (SO71) as well as a powder called SO65 that hasn't got a US equivalent and which lies between SO62 and SO70 burning rates.

 

[Laurie]

PS with GD-OTS Canada making both Accurate 4350 and IMR-4350 in the same factory, that makes you wonder if they're the same propellant with different names on the cans? (Likewise some other grades such as 4064 and 3100 / 4831?)

The 'old' Czech manufactured AA-4350 (now Lovex SO70) was / is slightly different from both H and IMR versions.

 

[spclark]

Laurie I have to give you credit for ferreting out the info you've posted today!

Marketing puts us all at a disadvantage when it comes to comparing Product A to Product B even when they're both - ostensibly - from the same vendor. In this sporting activity thinking one is "as good as" another because of similarities in labeling... can be a risky proposition.

 

[flatlander]

I've been working up 140gr loads for my 260 Imp 30* using IMR4350, and had seen an improvement in both velocity & accuracy over what I'd been getting with N160. When I saw that PV had the new IMR4451 in stock, I bought a couple of 1lb cans, and it's also been a slight improvement in the same application over IMR4350 - just getting started on this, so time will tell.

Also just put the finishing touches on a 6.5x47 built on a Bighorn TL2-SA action, with a 26" Krieger 1-8tw bbl. I ran 5rds of HBN coated Berger 140 LRBTs over the chrono this evening with 40grs of IMR4451. Got only 2749fps avg vel, and bolt lift was slightly stiff, so I'll probably try IMR4350 next, in hopes of getting closer to 2800fps. Accuracy of the 4451 load at 600yds was acceptable, but not outstanding.

 

[Laurie]

With a bit of luck, we'll get the new IMR powders next year in the UK. Our importer usually only gets a couple of shipments each year, and it can take a long time for new products to arrive. That's at least partly down to everything having to be tested and recertified under the 'CE' scheme to prove it meets EC standards. I'm told that the EC has banned products containing some chemicals and that this may affect some makes of powder in the future!

Anyway, fingers crossed. They look good ones and it's great to see IMR is improving its products and introducing new ones.

 

[LongRanger]

My results mimic those of M99.

Here's a post I made on this subject on 11/09/14.....

"Oak Ridge. Late Sunday afternoon 11-09-14. Sunny. Twitchy 0-4 mph wind. Low 60's. 600 yards from bench. Did not hold outside x ring to compensate for wind.

30-06.

32" Bartlein cut with Manson reamer. Barnard action. Ten times fired Lapua Brass (pockets still tight). Tula primers. 215 Berger hybrids .012 into lands.

15 shots H4350 followed by 5 shots with IMR4350. 53 grains for both.

H4350...2 sighters, then one 9, 2 tens, 10 x's.

IMR4350...one 10, 4 x's.

This was the first time I had tried the IMR. For same volume out of my powder dispenser as the Hodgdon, it weighed about 3 grains less, thus filled the case more to bring it up to 53 grains.

I trashed the brass that shot the 9."

I should add that while bullets loaded with the same weight of the 2 powders shot to the same point of impact at 600 yards, they are definitely different powders....and are very different in grain size and color. My rifle is happy with both of them.

Frank B.

 

[flatlander]

I also shot both IMR4350 & 4451 through a trued M700's 26" Bartlein 5R bbl in 6x47 last evening. This rifle has been very picky when it comes to finding loads that'll consistently keep 5 shots under 1 MOA at 600yds, and it's no budget-priced rig, with a PTG custom bolt, Jewell HVR, NF steel 20 MOA sloped scope rail, and a Kahles K624i AMR scope in Vortex rings, all bedded in a McM A5 stock. In fact, the only load I'd found to this point that would shoot as well as I expected was with Data 86 powder & S107MKs at 2950fps. That sucks, because this particular Data powder is a surplus Czech single-base extruded number that was only available for a short while several years ago. I'm still kicking myself for not buying a 4-jug case of the stuff, especially since it was priced at (IIRC) $48/8lb jug.

However, both IMR4350 & 4451 are showing promise, with 4451 producing a 7-shot group at 600 last night that measured under 3", with S107MKs at an avg vel of 2995fps. I finally decided to get a couple of 8lb jugs of 4451 while it's still available. So far, the only downside I've seen is the considerably higher price compared to the remainder of the IMR line.