Difference Between 6mmBR-Norma and 6mmBR-Remington?

[Bully]

In looking for dies I've come across both. Does it matter or are they interchangeable?

I currently have 100 pieces of 6mmBR-Norma brass and don't want to screw the pooch on this.

 

[HTSmith]

My three Redding dies are marked "Rem" but they work perfectly on my Lapua brass.

 

[rkittine]

If your gun is a 6mmBR Norma and you do not have the dies yet, but you have the brass, why not just get a set of dies made specifically for 6mmBR Norma and be done with it?

I went through this too when I built my first 6mmBR (A Reamer for 6mmBR Norma was used) I have heard there is a slight difference in the base dimensions and also have heard that they are identical and it is just how the chambering is done for longer projectiles. It is covered under the cartridge off the home page of this web site.

I had a 40X Target Master built by the Remington Custom Shop (But at Dakota Arms and with a Kreiger Barrel) for varmint hunting, and they have reamers for the Remington 6mmBR and for the Norma version, so I guess they think there is some type of difference.

Bob

 

[Eddie Harren]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_BR

Here you go!

 

[Bully]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6mm_BR

Here you go!

Thanks.
So it looks like the reamer is different but the dies are interchangeable?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Thanks.
So it looks like the reamer is different but the dies are interchangeable?

If the reamer is different the dies will be too. You wont like it if you interchange em- brass, chambers or dies they gotta match

 

[Bully]

If the reamer is different the dies will be too. You wont like it if you interchange em- brass, chambers or dies they gotta match

According to the article, the 6BR-N simply has a longer throat for the longer/heavier bullets. The 6BR-R was built to run 70's and shorter/lighter. The body of the die would be the same then, no?
It's early and I haven't had coffee yet so I could be missing something. Don't rag me too hard!

 

[Ggmac]

According to the article, the 6BR-N simply has a longer throat for the longer/heavier bullets. The 6BR-R was built to run 70's and shorter/lighter. The body of the die would be the same then, no?
It's early and I haven't had coffee yet so I could be missing something. Don't rag me too hard!

Norma / Lapua brass is usually larger at the base . Remington design had a longer neck . Now it's all grouped together till a Rem reamer is tried with Lapua brass . Then the little gremlins show up , bolt click ,hard lift hard chambering etc . You already figured out that the orig Rem design has a shorter ball seat .

 

[hogpatrol]

From the main site:

The 6mm BR that is most commonly used today is also called 6mm Norma BR, “6BR Norma”, or just plain “6BR”. Norma started with the 6mm Remington Benchrest and increased the base dimension slightly. But the official SAMMI cartridge OAL is the same: 1.560″. (However Remington did originally produce brass at 1.520″ OAL and some older chambers have been cut to a shorter length.) Though Norma standardized the round, most people shoot Lapua brass, because of its superior quality and uniformity, not to mention lower cost. The case capacity of Lapua brass is about 38-39.5 grains of H20, after fire-forming. The exact capacity depends on your gun’s chamber and the brass lot.

 

[rkittine]

Since every chamber is a little different, I never buy off the shelf dies anyway and get some cases fired at least 3 times in my chamber and then send them off with a copy of the reamer print for a custom FL sizing die.

Bob

 

[KevinThomas]

The difference here is SAAMI and CIP. SAAMI provides voluntary guidelines that most manufacturers follow to ensure interchangeability between various brands of firearms and ammunition. While SAAMI is a voluntary organization, CIP (think of it as the EU equivalent) has force of law behind them, and can legally compel member organizations to follow their regulations. One of their requirements is that any material alteration in case or bullet dimensions that would prevent the resulting ammo from being used in other firearms of the same nomenclature, requires new nomenclature. This is where the 6mm BR Norma comes from. Developed from the existing 6mm BR Remington for 300 meter competition, the "new" cartridge utilizes the exact same case, but requires a longer throat and faster twist rate for the use of the 105-107 grain bullets that were originally used in this type of competition. Since the original 6mm BR Remingtons were set up around a 68-70 grain bullet, had a much shorter throat and were normally set up with 1x14" twists (or thereabouts) the ammunition that Norma was loading for 300 meter completion couldn't be used in the original 6mm BR rifles. Under CIP regulations, this called for different cartridge nomenclature even though the cases are in fact identical. Any minor variations in dimensions are simply those commonly seen between different makes of components, and wouldn't otherwise materially affect their use in either chamber. I still have a 6mm BR, set up for the 70 gr. SMK, short throated and equipped with a 1x14" barrel that has seen nothing but Lapua 6mm BR Norma cases. Here in the US, with SAAMI guidelines in place, this wouldn't have required a new designation, and it would have been up to the shooter/handloader to understand the differences and load accordingly. But since Norma is a CIP member, and was loading the ammo, a new designation came to be.

 

[Bully]

^^*So... that’s awesome.^^^
Thank you.

 

[pirate ammo]

^^^^that answerd me too^^

 

[Stan Taylor]

Well here is to 6mmbr cases the one in the mike is 6mmbr Remington it is 4 thousands smaller than the 6mmbr Norma right above it case length the same.notice the writing on the box.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Well here is to 6mmbr cases the one in the mike is 6mmbr Remington it is 4 thousands smaller than the 6mmbr Norma right above it case length the same.View attachment 1042440

thats what I remember too. all I know is it doesnt work out but yall do what you wish

 

[expiper]

Well here is to 6mmbr cases the one in the mike is 6mmbr Remington it is 4 thousands smaller than the 6mmbr Norma right above it case length the same.View attachment 1042440

im glad you show the correct dims...most of these kids never shot or had one of the original Rem BR chambers or brass (UBR--308 w/small primer),,,they were very different,,,I have answered this particular question several times and it is good for you to show that more than a few know these facts,,,Lapua brass is far superior but it is different and should not be attempted to use in the old style chambers or use with the old style dies,,,,to the best of my knowledge all dies and reamers currently on the market will work in concert with the modern day Norma/Lapua brass,,,,as you and others have said the old stuff was not only smaller at the .200 line but most chambers were 1.520 +/- a little,,,I hope I never see one of those old chambers or that junk brass we had to deal with ever again !!!!,,,,Roger

 

[BoydAllen]

The difference here is SAAMI and CIP. SAAMI provides voluntary guidelines that most manufacturers follow to ensure interchangeability between various brands of firearms and ammunition. While SAAMI is a voluntary organization, CIP (think of it as the EU equivalent) has force of law behind them, and can legally compel member organizations to follow their regulations. One of their requirements is that any material alteration in case or bullet dimensions that would prevent the resulting ammo from being used in other firearms of the same nomenclature, requires new nomenclature. This is where the 6mm BR Norma comes from. Developed from the existing 6mm BR Remington for 300 meter competition, the "new" cartridge utilizes the exact same case, but requires a longer throat and faster twist rate for the use of the 105-107 grain bullets that were originally used in this type of competition. Since the original 6mm BR Remingtons were set up around a 68-70 grain bullet, had a much shorter throat and were normally set up with 1x14" twists (or thereabouts) the ammunition that Norma was loading for 300 meter completion couldn't be used in the original 6mm BR rifles. Under CIP regulations, this called for different cartridge nomenclature even though the cases are in fact identical. Any minor variations in dimensions are simply those commonly seen between different makes of components, and wouldn't otherwise materially affect their use in either chamber. I still have a 6mm BR, set up for the 70 gr. SMK, short throated and equipped with a 1x14" barrel that has seen nothing but Lapua 6mm BR Norma cases. Here in the US, with SAAMI guidelines in place, this wouldn't have required a new designation, and it would have been up to the shooter/handloader to understand the differences and load accordingly. But since Norma is a CIP member, and was loading the ammo, a new designation came to be.

Kevin,
Is your 6BR a factory rifle with the original barrel? If it is, when was it built? Do you have to trim your Lapua brass to be able to chamber it? If you look down this thread from your post you will see that there were significant differences that you may not have been aware of.

 

[BoydAllen]

View attachment 1042451 Well here is to 6mmbr cases the one in the mike is 6mmbr Remington it is 4 thousands smaller than the 6mmbr Norma right above it case length the same.View attachment 1042440notice the writing on the box.

Thanks for the pictures. What is the difference in case length? I don't remember the numbers but the friend that I referred to had to trim a bunch off of the Lapua brass to try it in his Remington spec' chamber. The problem came came from the close fit between unfired brass and the chamber. He got a tight bolt at lower velocities than he had with the Rem. brass. Once the chamber was corrected the problem went away.

 

[Stan Taylor]

Thanks for the pictures. What is the difference in case length? I don't remember the numbers but the friend that I referred to had to trim a bunch off of the Lapua brass to try it in his Remington spec' chamber. The problem came came from the close fit between unfired brass and the chamber. He got a tight bolt at lower velocities than he had with the Rem. brass. Once the chamber was corrected the problem went away.

The case length on both the 6br Norma an the br Remington was the same the problem comes from over working the backend of case an squeezing the shoulder forward..PS the 6 br Remington case is 1.555 long the factory6mm br Norma brass is 1.540 long.

 

[BoydAllen]

The case length on both the 6br Norma an the br Remington was the same the problem comes from over working the backend of case an squeezing the shoulder forward..PS the 6 br Remington case is 1.555 long the factory6mm br Norma brass is 1.540 long.

Thanks. You (and others) may find this interesting. I do remember that for my friends chamber that he had to trim Lapua brass. The second post in this thread describes a dimension difference that I think corresponds to my friend's experience. Obviously your brass is different from what he was using. I have no idea why. http://6mmbr.websitetoolbox.com/post/6mmbr-history-2250267