Dies

[stewie333]

Ok, I'm at a total loss.

I use RCBS dies for my TR .308 win. with regular shooting out to 900 meters. I want to get better dies to eliminate error in the reloading process. From my "internet research" (take that for what that is). I feel that Wilson neck dies are NOT what I need for my type of shooting. This leaves Forster and Redding. I would like to FL size my brass to ensure fit, bump the shoulder about .001 but at the same time minimize working the brass too with an expander ball.

What is it that I need? A Forster bushing bump die? A neck sizer die with the EZ expander. A FL sizer? Do FL dies also come with neck bushings?

I need input, please.

Thanks

 

[BoydAllen]

Have you quantified your "reloading error"?

 

[Catfish]

I have several sets of Redding S dies in both neck size only and FL size. I like them because I can use them on wildcat rounds without buying custom dies for the round. That said, if your doing something wrong they won`t help, what is your problem?

 

[necchi]

I want to get better dies to eliminate error in the reloading process.

Boyd has a very good answer here

What is it that I need?

Technique.
Many folks do just fine with what they have. It's just a matter of gaining experiance with your hands on the press and time spent on the trigger to determine what your rifle and your style needs to improve.

A man can buy his way into $$$$$ of dollars of equipment,, and nun of it will make accurate shooting happen if he doesn't know how to use it.

I started with, and still use RCBS dies,, I set them up different than I did when I first started and I do more now than just "move the press handle up-n-down" expecting good results,,

Good Luck, Calm Down,, Practice,, read, be open to learning,,

 

[bheadboy]

i have always found Redding and RCBS dies to do what i need as long as i do my part, CAREFULLY, AND WITH ATTENTION TO DETAIL.

Bob

 

[stewie333]

It's the little things I guess, that I want to eliminate. I would like to better control neck tension, and decrease run-out. I can, within reason, control neck bump. I'm just not sure how much I am bumping it. Seating depths are easier to control. I have noticed marks, scratches and other blemishes on both the bullets and brass from using the dies. I have been reloading for about 7 years, and although I do not consider myself a novice shooter or reloader, I do have a lot more to learn. At the ranges I am shooting at, every little thing helps. If I know my ammo is a good as I can make it, when a shot goes wrong I will look at myself, a bad wind call or just a bad shot instead of second guessing a problem with the ammo. I don't go as far as bullet pointing or neck turning.

I'm a machinist by trade, so I'm pretty anal.

 

[BoydAllen]

You need one of the Hornady headspace gauges to measure bump. If want to play with neck tension, you can either go to a bushing FL die or, if your chamber neck diameter is large, and you don't want to turn necks, a two step sizing process with a Lee collet die for the neck (You can get different neck tensions with different diameter mandrels.) and a body die is another way to go. I do not like bump dies, because cases can get tight at the back, and a bump die does not size there. Another option is to go to an arbor press type seater, such as the Wilson. They generally give the most consistent ogive to head length, and the best feel for monitoring seating force. Another upgrade would be to learn how to PROPERLY anneal your cases. The article that you can find on the subject, on this site, is one of the best. Don't fall for any of that old heat the necks till they glow in a darkened room and tip them over into the water that they are standing in advice. There is a lot of bad annealing advice on the internet. Hornady makes a kit, and if you add a cheap battery powered metronome to it, so that you can hear the seconds tick off, and a propane torch, you will be all set, for not too much money. That should keep you busy for a while.

 

[Larryh128]

One thing that will help your run out is to seat the bullet about half way to the intended depth, rotate the case 90 degrees & finish seating the bullet. This will help correct bullet run out. It won't make bad brass better but it will shoot better. You really need to get into neck turning, you won't look back. I turn every neck to .013, even my AR brass. Only way to get a consistant bullet release.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Ok, I'm at a total loss....
What is it that I need? A Forster bushing bump die? A neck sizer die with the EZ expander. A FL sizer? Do FL dies also come with neck bushings?...

Hmm, not sure, but the one comment I would make is, what about annealing? Where does that sit in your brass prep activities? Good luck. JCS

 

[stewie333]

I don't currently anneal my brass, I'm more likely to burn down my house if I start playing with fire. ;D

For now I think it will be a Forster FL sizer and a Wilson seater. I have read great things about both products. Mostly from this site.

Thanks fot the input, much appreciated.

Cam

 

[MVW]

This is really a question for Boyd, but I thought that a FL bushing die and a body die were the same except for the addition of the neck sizing bushing - at least that is what I thought that the Redding catalog says?

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I don't currently anneal my brass, ...

Cam. Thanks, but you are missing a trick here. I talk to some top guys about what they do, one winner I know anneals his match brass every time. That's overkill to me, but I can feel the inconsistencies in seating when my brass reaches five firings, so I now get the brass annealed after 4 firings. Regards JCS

 

[BoydAllen]

You are right. If you buy a bushing FL die, and don't use a bushing (leave it out) it will do what a body die does. The reason that I mentioned using a body die is that they are less expensive, and if the goal is to bump the shoulder and size the body in conjunction with using a Lee Collet die, then the additional cost of buying the FL bushing die would be wasted. On the other hand, if you want to make a comparison of runout between the two methods, the FL bushing die would be the way to go. Sometimes when the amount that you have to reduce fired necks in diameter is great, because of the nature of factory chambers, using a collet die may give better overall results than a bushing. That is the reason that I bought it up.

Years ago, I tried turning necks for a factory .222, that I had tuned up to consistently shoot under a half inch. I didn't see any improvement in accuracy, and the necks were worked more during sizing, because of the additional clearance. I suppose that if the chamber had been smaller, and the brass a little thicker, it might have gone the other way.

I have always been a fan of the idea that you should try things out, rather than always doing what someone else says is best. There are always differences in equipment and components, and these can give you different results than the fellow that you are asking got. It is not that he is wrong, just that your situation is slightly different.

One thing that I can recommend, with quite a bit of confidence, if you don't already have one, is getting a decent concentricity gauge. Without one, you can't see differences in how straight your ammunition is, that I think are significant when finding the best accuracy is the goal.