• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Die shaving case, thoughts?

snert

Silver $$ Contributor
Stay with me on this one and read carefully, please.

I bought some formed and fired 30 Herrett brass from a guy, anticipating buying a barrel for my Contender someday.

I bought an RCBS 30 Herrett FL die, seat die and Form/trim die from ANOTHER guy, later, same reason.

I bought a 30 Herrett barrel from a THIRD guy.

Today tested the brass from guy 1, which had been fired in his gun. With no sizing it fit fine and the TC passed the cock and fire on a dead primer test for headspace.

So then I sized that fired brass. A couple things happened. First, it grew in length from 1.605 to 1.610. But more glaringly, it shaved off a tad of brass near the base (see photo). I barely bumped the shoulder because these guns shoot best when the shoulder is tight to the chamber/breach face. At that time, since the brass I was sizing had been fired in another gun, and the "shaving" seemed to occur mostly on one side, not all the way around, I surmised that the guy who owned the brass had an infamously TC barrel...with a egg shaped chamber. I decided I could live with it. I trimmed the cases to 1.60, the TRIM TO length, then loaded 16 of them with 23 grains of 4227, a WLR primer and a 125 Sierra SP.

Off to the range where they all fired (good, no extraction issues, though one was tight, and all went off, so no headspace issues).

Back home tonight I decided to size all the rest of the brass and prep it for load testing, as I was unhappy with the groups I shot. TC can be finicky, so I was not surprised at that.

I first sized the brass now fired in my gun. This time it took off MORE brass, all the way around. Ok, my chamber isn't egg shaped, but it is larger. The cases grew back from a "timmed and fired" length of 1.601 ish, to 1.605. That seemed to be a bit much in my mind for case life! But more frustrating was the shaving on the sidewall.

So for giggles I pulled out a new 30-30 Starline case (for once I decide on a bullet I like) and ran it into the die. It sized easily for step one of making Herret, with no shaving.

So...here is the question for all you guys...

Should I be worried about this RCBS die taking so much off (see my shaving on the "finger photo")? And I might add it sure seems like it is the non-radius edge at the die entrance that grabs it. My Redding dies don't seem to do that on any cases like my 357 Herrett.
And is there a solution, or is this a non-issue?

1000020816.jpg
1000020815.jpg
 
I susupect that brass wasn't at the spec diameter. A question would be was it like that before you fired it in the new rig, or because you fired it in the new rig?

Another question would be, would that die still scrape the case if it were detailed? I would put that in the lathe and detail the radius on the die if you see that it is "too sharp".

Don't go nuclear if this is your first time reworking a die. Take it slow with an Arkansas Stone or some 400 paper and keep a very close eye on how easy the material changes. Only go more aggressive if the first attempts don't put a dent in it.

Is that brass over-heated and too soft? Hard to guess.

One way to find out, is how the bbl and die will run with that fresh Starline brass. Good Luck and in for the range reports.
 
I susupect that brass wasn't at the spec diameter. A question would be was it like that before you fired it in the new rig, or because you fired it in the new rig?
Yes, the fired brass was fired in another barrel when I got it, and had not been resized. When I resized it in the RCBS die, it shaved, but mostly on one side.
Another question would be, would that die still scrape the case if it were detailed? I would put that in the lathe and detail the radius on the die if you see that it is "too sharp".
I do not have a lathe
Don't go nuclear if this is your first time reworking a die. Take it slow with an Arkansas Stone or some 400 paper and keep a very close eye on how easy the material changes. Only go more aggressive if the first attempts don't put a dent in it.
10-4
Is that brass over-heated and too soft? Hard to guess.
It didn't feel bad at all. I am not new to the game so have a decent feel after 44 years of doing it...just never had a die shave like this.
One way to find out, is how the bbl and die will run with that fresh Starline brass. Good Luck and in for the range reports.
Yes, that remains to be seen (after I figure out a bullet withthis old brass that appears to "work")

I have multiple Contender barrels and they run from awesome (the 357Herrett shoots touching at 50, under 2 inches often at 100 with a 2x Leupold). The 7-30 waters should be used for grouse...it patterns, doesn't group. The K Hornet shoots pretty decent, and it has killed a pile of PD, and the 17FB is twitchy... I think it is a headspcae/chamber issue on a rechamber job done before I bought it. But it holds an inch at 100. So I am hopeful this one will work out and shoot like the 357 once I sort it out.

Thanks for the advice
 
Agree with post #2. Your die has a sharp edge and perhaps scored a bit inside but mostly try and get that sharp edge off. Thats the only way you are "shaving" brass.
 
you can shorten a die quite a bit, most dies have a mega chamfer at the base u can take .030 off easy and still have a good chamfer, I've taken off a bit off the base of a die, maybe someone shortened the die and took off the chamfer, so yes it needs a little chamfer to take away the peeling as Mr Warner Say's he is correct
 
Are you familiar with how to form and size a shouldered, rimmed case?
Was the guy before you?

Set the head space like you are forming a rimless shouldered case. Leave the die high and run it down until the action closes freely. When you’re close, the shoulder may crush when you close the action, it’s worth measuring and watching for this. It kind of like a rimless being blown out to an AI , you can over stretch a rimmed cartridges or over expand the base. Remember you have 50,000 psi Herrett, in a 40,000 psi 30-30 case.

Do all the normal measuring, before, after firing and measure where the shaving starts.

What happens if you size it in the forming die first?

You have a 7 waters, does that die shave the base also?

It’s possible the previous owner customized the sizing die, and that’s why the mouth is sharp, might be worth measuring base to shoulder.

Finally. Any 308 based case and some lapping compound should soften the edge on the bottom of your die. Compound on the shoulder and spin it. Drill press would be nice, arbor from a trimmer can work. Just need to be creative. But you have .450 shoulder tapered to fit a .420” die body
 
You need some hard numbers to tell the complete story. Diameters at the .200 line will give you a better picture. Fired case is 7-9K larger than sized, excessive chamber. The fact its growing in length, means your die isn't touching the shoulder. I've had and still use wonky dies, but have never had a die shave a case like that. For peace of mind, try another shell holder while you're at it.
 
so
you need to polish the (at least) lower portion of the dies and add a small radius leading into the die.
Correct. There has to be a sharp edge. Don't understand the location where it happens on the case. The cartridge is well into the die before the cutting occurs??? Can you see a sharp edge anywhere on the die interior?
 
The bottom inside edge of a die isnt sharp. That one's been shortened. I've done it myself, but always re-radiused / broken that inside edge with a dremel. It's NOT hard to do, barely any work at all. OR.....get a new die.
Also, don't use brass shot in someone else's chamber, start fresh with your own (new Starline?) brass.

I've also used a friend's small base die that had been purposely ground to eliminate the radius giving it a sharp edge, and shave a slight bit of web to fit a custom chamber slightly too tight for custom brass.
 
Last edited:
And is there a solution, or is this a non-issue?
Your die is causing this. The mouth of the die is sharp. It will do the same on any brass that is oversize and sized down.

Could be someone cut it at some point, maybe from the factory like that, for whatever reason.

You need some 1000 grit wet sandpaper and a drill press / lathe to turn the die so you can smooth that inside edge.

It will take some time, die bodies are very hard. Wrap a strip of sandpaper about one inch wide on a dowel stick, and angle it so it contacts just the inside edge of the die, while the die is turning. It'll radius automatically.

I've had the same issue on case walls, I can't remember when or what die it was, just that I had it and fixed it this way.

I also had a similar issue where my Forster die was doing the same thing to my 30-06 case mouth, on full length sizing, it was scraping to a millimeter or so below the case mouth. Also fixed in the same way.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
166,908
Messages
2,225,117
Members
80,023
Latest member
dbandrews79
Back
Top