Did I just ruin once-fired Lapua brass?

[pcswann]

I'm an experienced pistol cartridge reloader but a complete noob when it comes to bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading. I've successfully loaded and fired new Lapua brass, but now it's time to resize and reload my once-fired brass, and this is where I suspect I messed up.

I deprimed and cleaned the brass then, for some reason, I chamfered and deburred it and ran an expander mandrel before sizing it. When I sized it I got vertical scratches on the brass I could easily feel with my fingernail. I stopped after 3 cases showed scratches. Visual inspection of my brand new L.E. Wilson bushing sizing die showed streaks of brass inside, and even after I cleaned the die with BoreTech Eliminator and copper solvent I can still see the scratches on the die wall. Visible brass appears to be gone. I'm going to either repair (polish) or replace the die, and now I know to chamfer, debur, and mandrel after sizing, but I'm wondering if the brass I haven't yet sized can be salvaged? By chamfering and deburring before sizing have I introduced a sharpness/brittleness to the necks that will flake off brass whenever I try to resize it? I've seen a suggestion to take fine scotch brite to the necks to knock off any jagged bits, so I might try that. Any advice or input is appreciated.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

Chamfer/Deburring the case mouths shouldn't put scratches on your die or brass; honestly nothing you did there should have caused the scratching, unless you went crazy with chamfering and had flakes everywhere when you ran the case up into the die. More than likely there was a defect with the die to begin with.

I would send the die back to Wilson. I'd make sure I was using good case lube, and I'd shoot the brass you scratched up. It'll be ugly, but you didn't ruin the brass.

 

[memilanuk]

Did you F/L size the brass with this die before you fired it initially? Or is this the first time you've run cases through this particular die? Like Mike said, typically brass doesn't scratch/gall stainless steel dies. Not saying that something else on the brass couldn't have that effect, but chamfering the case mouths? Highly unlikely.

 

[Ned Ludd]

The question in my mind is whether this is a "sizing" issue at all. It is certainly possible to create scratches/marks on the outside of the case neck by using too small a bushing, insufficient lubrication, or possibly by over-expanding them using a mandrel step first, followed by what would normally be the correct bushing size. However, the OP did not state where the scratches were located on the cases, or where the brass streaks were located inside the die. If we are talking about scratches on the brass anywhere but the outside of the neck and/or brass streaks anywhere inside the die other than the the inside of the bushing, then something else is going on. It sounds as though there is brass galling inside the die. A more detailed description of exactly where the scratches on the cases and the brass streaks inside the die are located may help elicit better and more helpful replies.

If there are scratches solely on the outside of the case necks and brass streaks solely on the inside of the bushing, then the cases can likely be restored to usefulness by smoothing out the neck scratches with fine steel wool or a Scotch Brite pad. In that event, it may be simpler to replace the bushing than trying to polish it out. However, those observations are dependent on the location of the scratches and brass streaks, and after re-reading the original post, I am not sure I completely understand what occured/was observed.

 

[Gary in MD]

I'm thinking that it's a lube issue or lack thereof.

 

[Sandstorm]

Ive seen this before...send your Die back to Wilson and have it polished to get the brass that
is imbedded in the die removed. Running dirty brass or brass with brass flakes on them will in some casses will do this and once its embeddid in the die its a brear to remove,
( Size first before brass prep )

 

[Highbrass Shooter]

If you’re a pistol guy new to rifle brass, don’t forget to trim your brass after resizing!!! Then chamfer/debur.

 

[JFrank]

Pretty tough for brass to scratch the die wall of a heat treated and case hardened Wilson die. When I don’t lube enough I’ll get rub marks on brass but never the opposite.
I would probably call Wilson tech for direction to proceed.

 

[Minshooter]

Another easy way to get fine vertical scratches on the case neck:
Clean before sizing using the same tumbler media that was used to clean fired brass.
In particular, with range pickup brass, might as well throw some dirt into the tumbler.
Pistol loading is mostly done with carbide dies, so this doesn't seem to happen there.
A separate tumbler and media (Or a water cleaning), used only before sizing, eliminated the scratches -for me.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I often chamfer the case mouth and the primer pocket with a vld tool on 223 range brass after deprime and cleaning(wash in tumbler no pins). I haven't had any scratching or sizing issues. Mostly using the brass for prairie dog and coyote ammo, although lately I have been loading shtf ammo.

 

[ASbobcat]

I'm an experienced pistol cartridge reloader but a complete noob when it comes to bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading. I've successfully loaded and fired new Lapua brass, but now it's time to resize and reload my once-fired brass, and this is where I suspect I messed up.

I deprimed and cleaned the brass then, for some reason, I chamfered and deburred it and ran an expander mandrel before sizing it. When I sized it I got vertical scratches on the brass I could easily feel with my fingernail. I stopped after 3 cases showed scratches. Visual inspection of my brand new L.E. Wilson bushing sizing die showed streaks of brass inside, and even after I cleaned the die with BoreTech Eliminator and copper solvent I can still see the scratches on the die wall. Visible brass appears to be gone. I'm going to either repair (polish) or replace the die, and now I know to chamfer, debur, and mandrel after sizing, but I'm wondering if the brass I haven't yet sized can be salvaged? By chamfering and deburring before sizing have I introduced a sharpness/brittleness to the necks that will flake off brass whenever I try to resize it? I've seen a suggestion to take fine scotch brite to the necks to knock off any jagged bits, so I might try that. Any advice or input is appreciated.

I don't know why, but chamfering tools do a reasonable job on the INSIDE and a HORRIBLE job on the outside. You can feel the sharp edge left after outside chamfering. As some have suggested, Scotchbrite does a reasonable job of removing this, but I use a hard rubber conical polishing wheel with my Dremel after the Scothbrite (NOT steel wool!) on both inside and outside.
You are experiencing galling caused, as you suspected, from chips coming off that sharp chamfered edge. The only way to fix the die is to polish. Redding has a procedure for this with Breakfree CLP and medium grit (400) wet/dry sandpaper. Or you could send the die to Wilson.
I stopped using Redding TiN bushings because the coating on those is a virtual magnet for those brass chips. I got tennis elbow from having to de-gall those so frequently.

 

[ASbobcat]

It's been awhile since I had to prep new brass (my Lapua 6BR lasts FOREVER), but I just recalled that I completely stopped chamfering the outside of necks because the results were so awful, in fact counterproductive. Scotchbrite followed with the Dremel polishing wheel is all you need.

When you polish out the galling in your die, you will actually be able to see the flecks of brass on the sandpaper (be sure to keep the sandpaper well lubricated). It's quite revealing. And DON'T use WD40. That stuff is fine for household and automotive use, but it contains silicon which leaves a sticky residue that is extremely difficult to remove. When I trained on the M16 in the Air Force in 1969, we dunked the whole bolt carrier assembly in a vat of WD40. There is a good reason why the military switched to Break Free.

 

[JMayo]

Lack of lube caused one of my bushings to get brassed up.
Leaving brass particles after messing with case mouth also.

I'd say you're good to go either way. A few little scratches aren't anything to worry about.

Imo

 

[Webster]

I'm an experienced pistol cartridge reloader but a complete noob when it comes to bottleneck rifle cartridge reloading. I've successfully loaded and fired new Lapua brass, but now it's time to resize and reload my once-fired brass, and this is where I suspect I messed up.

I deprimed and cleaned the brass then, for some reason, I chamfered and deburred it and ran an expander mandrel before sizing it. When I sized it I got vertical scratches on the brass I could easily feel with my fingernail. I stopped after 3 cases showed scratches. Visual inspection of my brand new L.E. Wilson bushing sizing die showed streaks of brass inside, and even after I cleaned the die with BoreTech Eliminator and copper solvent I can still see the scratches on the die wall. Visible brass appears to be gone. I'm going to either repair (polish) or replace the die, and now I know to chamfer, debur, and mandrel after sizing, but I'm wondering if the brass I haven't yet sized can be salvaged? By chamfering and deburring before sizing have I introduced a sharpness/brittleness to the necks that will flake off brass whenever I try to resize it? I've seen a suggestion to take fine scotch brite to the necks to knock off any jagged bits, so I might try that. Any advice or input is appreciated.

You have to chamfer before sizing so little pieces of brass/burrs don't break off the neck edge in the die. That's the only source off brass entering the die. Sweets bore cleaner is a very strong at removing copper. Soak the die in it for a couple hours. Disassemble the die first so you can dry all the threaded areas extremely free of water. I might put them in an oven at 150F to make sure they are dry. Maybe a hair dryer. If I am not going to use my dies for a couple weeks, I spray them with WD-40 Specialist Corrosion inhibitor. It’s expensive but it lasts a long time. I used to spray them with Rem gun oil which is OK. I polished a die once by making a slot in a wooden dowel inserting some 600 or 800 grit sand paper in the slot so it flops around using an electric drill. Some color won't hurt anything, it may be microscopic in thickness. No reason to replace the die, it can be cleaned up.

I wouldn't worry about small scratches in the die. They are low areas and shouldn't affect sizing. I would try to poliish away the high spots on the edges of the scratches. Don't get too agressive sanding.

 

[Link]

Fix the problem - send me your old, damaged brass. I will dispose of it for you free of charge
;}

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Pics would help

 

[pcswann]

The question in my mind is whether this is a "sizing" issue at all. It is certainly possible to create scratches/marks on the outside of the case neck by using too small a bushing, insufficient lubrication, or possibly by over-expanding them using a mandrel step first, followed by what would normally be the correct bushing size. However, the OP did not state where the scratches were located on the cases, or where the brass streaks were located inside the die. If we are talking about scratches on the brass anywhere but the outside of the neck and/or brass streaks anywhere inside the die other than the the inside of the bushing, then something else is going on. It sounds as though there is brass galling inside the die. A more detailed description of exactly where the scratches on the cases and the brass streaks inside the die are located may help elicit better and more helpful replies.

If there are scratches solely on the outside of the case necks and brass streaks solely on the inside of the bushing, then the cases can likely be restored to usefulness by smoothing out the neck scratches with fine steel wool or a Scotch Brite pad. In that event, it may be simpler to replace the bushing than trying to polish it out. However, those observations are dependent on the location of the scratches and brass streaks, and after re-reading the original post, I am not sure I completely understand what occured/was observed.

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Ned. I was worried that I'd post too much information, but now i see I left some critical info out. The scratches are indeed on the case body, not the neck. The scratches begin right at the shoulder and continue toward the base a little more than halfway down the case length. I'm going to try to attach some photos.

 

[pcswann]

Did you F/L size the brass with this die before you fired it initially? Or is this the first time you've run cases through this particular die? Like Mike said, typically brass doesn't scratch/gall stainless steel dies. Not saying that something else on the brass couldn't have that effect, but chamfering the case mouths? Highly unlikely.

I didn't full length size the brass before its first firing. I figured it would be the smallest it would ever be right out of the box from Lapua. The first 3 cases I ran through the die showed these scratches. I applied the One Shot in a new one-gallon ziplock bag, spraying it, then agitating the bag to spread out the lube, then repeating that process. Then I spread out the cases on a clean plastic box lid to let them dry for about 5 minutes before beginning to size them.

 

[pcswann]

Fix the problem - send me your old, damaged brass. I will dispose of it for you free of charge
;}

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Thanks for the thoughtful response, Ned. I was worried that I'd post too much information, but now i see I left some critical info out. The scratches are indeed on the case body, not the neck. The scratches begin right at the shoulder and continue toward the base a little more than halfway down the case length. I'm going to try to attach some photos.View attachment 1493450View attachment 1493451View attachment 1493452View attachment 1493450View attachment 1493451View attachment 1493452

It's not trash but a couple of things...It appears that the die is very aggressive for your chamber and the scratches are likely from brass galling inside the die. You did good, cleaning it well using a good copper solvent. Don't polish it too smooth, as it can make the galling even worse. I'd send a few fired cases to Wilson and let them check/modify it to not be as agressive and properly finish it. I bet that'll fix your problem.