Delayed firing pin ignition, Huge SD and ES

[Rtheurer]

OK Guys some new development. In my 300 Meter Prone Rifle i tested some lighter weight bullets this morning my doing a ladder test with some brass that was about on its last firing. I like to use the TULA primers for brass that has the primer pockets a little loose because they are a tiny bit over size than others.
Rifle: 6BR on a Borden Action, Super 700 Trigger. Guess what happend on this rifle.. Small delay on a few shots of 20. Same primers i was using in my Creed.
My beloved Tula's some how went bad on me or got moisture or some gosh dang thing... I believe it was indeed a Primer issue.
Sigh....

 

[clowdis]

Well, so much for the Tulas, you aren't going to get any more. Guess I'd better get on with using some of my Wolf primers. Damn Russian conspiracy.

 

[Rtheurer]

This Lot of Tula SRM's where Fantastic..... Where...

 

[DaveTooley]

OK Guys some new development. In my 300 Meter Prone Rifle i tested some lighter weight bullets this morning my doing a ladder test with some brass that was about on its last firing. I like to use the TULA primers for brass that has the primer pockets a little loose because they are a tiny bit over size than others.
Rifle: 6BR on a Borden Action, Super 700 Trigger. Guess what happend on this rifle.. Small delay on a few shots of 20. Same primers i was using in my Creed.
My beloved Tula's some how went bad on me or got moisture or some gosh dang thing... I believe it was indeed a Primer issue.
Sigh....

I solved my primer issues with very firm seating. Like trying to crush it. Probably something to do with the anvil height.

 

[Rtheurer]

I solved my primer issues with very firm seating. Like trying to crush it. Probably something to do with the anvil height.

That is how i seat all my primers. Slight Crush. I have been doing this for a decade or more.

 

[XTR]

Russ, I shot Tulas SRPs until after the last FCNC at Raton, I forget if that was '19. It was cold in the mornings and I started getting hang fires.

After I got home I did some testing and decided it was the Tulas, then I started to think back on some other cold mornings, esp at Raton over the last many yrs where I legitimately should have had a shot at cleaning an F class target in the bunny relay first thing in the morning I'd lost points to vertical. Hmmmm....

Still have a bunch, they are now designated for 223s and not 308 sized cases.

 

[akajun]

Flintlock ignition. Lets the vibrations from the firing pin drop dissipate before the bullet goes. Seems like a good idea you had there

HAHAHA you have no idea. My grandfather was a Buckskinner. When My brother and I told him we wanted muzzleloaders to hunt primitive weapons seasons he gave us flintlocks loaded with real BP and patched balls. even on a dry day there was still a delay, not to mention the distraction from the pan to make you not follow through.
One doe I shot on a cold damp Louisiana Morning I pulled the trigger, flash in the pan but I kept aiming anyway, doe looked up at me aiming at her and before she could process it, BOOM! after about 2-3 seconds.

 

[Rtheurer]

Russ, I shot Tulas SRPs until after the last FCNC at Raton, I forget if that was '19. It was cold in the mornings and I started getting hang fires.

After I got home I did some testing and decided it was the Tulas, then I started to think back on some other cold mornings, esp at Raton over the last many yrs where I legitimately should have had a shot at cleaning an F class target in the bunny relay first thing in the morning I'd lost points to vertical. Hmmmm....

Still have a bunch, they are now designated for 223s and not 308 sized cases.

It certainly should ignite 29gr of Varget in a 6BR with no problems at 65 Deg. Something else is wrong i believe. They will have to be used for Zombie ammo or something now. I sure hate that, as that was a particular good lot of primers at one time always gave me Low SD and ES. I had 10,000 of them at one point. Down to 1000 or so.
I test 6mm Creed again today so we will see how it shakes out. Put in some CCI 450 out of a Fresh case. In the 6Creed/ Stiller and original bolt back in the rifle to see what happens.

Russel

 

[clowdis]

I don't know if you do this or not but if you haven't you could try uniforming the primer pockets and see what happens. According to the daily bulletin a few weeks back CCI (I think) on examination of a few "bad" cases and primers that were sent to them that didn't work said they weren't seated properly. They went back and uniformed the pockets and all the primers fired as they should. Something to mess with in your spare time.

 

[SecondsCount]

I wonder if this is a moisture issue, and putting them in a dehydrator for a few days would bring them back to life.

 

[Rtheurer]

Put together 20 rounds with a medium load that is un tuned but safe. shot 3 rounds to Zero up at 1000yds. shot 17 rounds past the Lab Radar and ended up with a SD of 10 FPS and it held .79 MOA elevation with a random load. All this with my original bolt ( with the new firing pin spring) for the rifle.

Thank you to everyone here. Maybe this thread will help someone else as well.

 

[SBS]

In 1976 I bought a Rem. 40X in .222 Mag. Factory target showed 1 group that measured .14 and the rifle shot 1/4' with my loads pretty regularly. Was out of shooting for about 7 years, then joined a local club, got out the 40X and groups were 2 moa or larger. Tried numerous loads, cleaned the barrel thoroughly several times, had it professionally rebedded by Bob Pease down in Texas. Nothing helped, so put it in the back of the closet. Sometime later, happened to be reading a transcript of a bull session by HP winners at Perry. Ran onto the discussion of primers and the statement that just because a primer seemingly lit off the powder okay did not mean it has the same brisance (roughly, the same amount and duration of flame). I had been using the same CCI BR primers that I always fired in my loads, so had never thought about those being the problem until I read the article. Ran down to the nearest gun shop, bought some Rem. 7/12 primers, loaded up with my old load that shot so well originally and was immediately in the 1/4 moa range again. With the bad primers, I had no hint of a delay or slight hangfire such as Russ experienced. Shortly thereafter, I bought an Oehler chronograph and ran loads over it with the bad CCI primers and velocity spread was way over 100 fps for 5 rds. I had not taken any pains to store these primers during my non shooting years and I'm sure this was the cause. Interestingly, I had a large number of Win. LR primers stored in the same manner and they were still good. Still have some of the Win. to this day and they are over 45 years old now and still work fine. They are just a little large and I use them for primer pockets that get a little loose. So if you think a primer is okay just because it lights off a charge of powder, better run it over the chrono if you have unusual accuracy problems. Matter of fact, thinking about it makes me want to try different primers with the powders I use to see which give the best results. Guess I've been lazy about that as long as the loads shoot well enough for the purpose.

 

[mattri]

Good thread, thanks for posting results.

 

[ar15Jeff]

Speaking of CCI primers. When I started shooting in the early eighties, I was using CCI primers (beige or green colored packaging) during our winter off-hand shoots using IMR 4895 in my 308. On several rounds I distinctly heard the firing pin hit a fraction of a second before the round went off, kind of like a click-bang. Except for testing your nerves and your follow-thru, the shots went right on call. Switched over to Federals and it went away. Don't know if it was a bad/old lot, poor storage, or the temps but I haven't had problems with newer (light or dark blue) CCI primers.

 

[Rtheurer]

UPDATE: Looks like it is going to be alright. CCI 450's and a New firing pin spring, Different trigger.

 

[DR_2297]

Thanks for this thread Russ. I have been having this issue, though not as severe, with both my 223 Palma and 6XC any rifle. I have been working through 5k 7.5 rems but using 450s in the 308. When a 6XC can’t get into single digit SD with known loads something is wrong. I suspect what you have figured out and have gone to some federal GMM 205 AR primers I have that are a year or so old. Would have loved to have given it a test run @ Perry yesterday but we had to give a new meaning to “boat in the impact area” that delayed everything half a day so I jetted.