Decoppering Powder

[choprzrul]

I'm getting ready to fire form 200 brass and am going to use IMR4955 powder to hopefully keep copper fouling to a minimum. I did the same thing on a 6.5CM using 4451 and it seemed to work super well.

My question: Does the decoppering process work equally well with a minimum, low pressure load as it does with a load that is near max pressure?

I'd imagine there has to be a chemical reaction based upon heat and/or pressure....but does it take 'just so much' of either one to work properly?

Another thought as I was typing this....are there different approaches to decoppering from the different powder manufacturers? The ones I can think of off the top of my head:

Alliant
Hodgdon
IMR
Norma
Ramshot
Vihtavuori
Winchester

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Dont plan your life around decoppering. It doesnt work all the time. In other words dont shoot shiity powder just because it cleans your barrel. David tubb sells the bismuth decoppering agent you can put in your powder

 

[Catfur]

AFAIK, the decoppering additive is simply tin or bismuth. This process is older than dirt (aka dates back to early days of smokeless gunpowder), and works with low pressure rounds like pistol rounds just as well as with high pressure. The additive simply amalgamates with any vaporized copper in the high pressure gas in the barrel, and makes the deposits weaker rather than a nice, high strength copper plating on your barrel.

 

[choprzrul]

Dont plan your life around decoppering. It doesnt work all the time. In other words dont shoot shiity powder just because it cleans your barrel. David tubb sells the bismuth decoppering agent you can put in your powder

Given the current component availability challenges, I don't really want to burn my 'good' stuff to do fire forming....so I looked at my inventory of powders and had a few pounds of each of those, so I decided to burn them up.

I'm not using either 4451 or 4955 in anything I currently shoot. If the decoppering works better at minimum or maximum charges, that is what I will load for. Whatever I have left will go back in the storage bins...

Just wondering...

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Given the current component availability challenges, I don't really want to burn my 'good' stuff to do fire forming....so I looked at my inventory of powders and had a few pounds of each of those, so I decided to burn them up.

I'm not using either 4451 or 4955 in anything I currently shoot. If the decoppering works better at minimum or maximum charges, that is what I will load for. Whatever I have left will go back in the storage bins...

Just wondering...

I think youll find it does work better on the low loads although it appears to load the barrel with that sludgy stuff on low loads. Do a little cleaning every 25rds so it doesnt build up and itll be fine

 

[243winxb]

IMR Enduron powders contain Biismuth & are double based. Tried 4166 & 4451. Went back to IMR 4198 & 4350.

 

[Hoot]

Anybody else have trouble when running reloads using a de-coppering powder (in my case CFE223) and difficulty getting LabRadar to consistently register shots? I'm using an inertial trigger and the same brass and bullets, but without a de-coppering powder registered every time. It gave me the impression that it was behaving like chaff. Have not revisited after that first incident, so it could have been some other factor. I like muzzle brakes and even stand up a rectangular, concrete paver between the muzzle and my shooting table top mounted LabRadar, as a shield. Get some weird looks but it normally helps.

Hoot

 

[choprzrul]

Anybody else have trouble when running reloads using a de-coppering powder (in my case CFE223) and difficulty getting LabRadar to consistently register shots? I'm using an inertial trigger and the same brass and bullets, but without a de-coppering powder registered every time. It gave me the impression that it was behaving like chaff. Have not revisited after that first incident, so it could have been some other factor. I like muzzle brakes and even stand up a rectangular, concrete paver between the muzzle and my shooting table top mounted LabRadar, as a shield. Get some weird looks but it normally helps.

Hoot

I shot 14 times on Thursday of last week using CFE223 behind 97gr Absolute Hammers in a 16" 6.5CM doing some load development.

Very smoky! I can see what you are talking about with 'chaff'. I had 13/14 record velocities using my LabRadar. The one shot that didn't record, it appeared that the muzzle brake had moved my LabRadar and I assumed that was the recording difficulty root cause.

I will be going out and firing 15 more rounds with that rifle and will try and make a mental note to watch signal strength.

Between the Hammers (reputation for leaving very little copper in a bore), low round count, and the CFE powder....the barrel cleanup was super simple and no copper noted (via bore scope) after a bit of cleaning with Shooter's Choice to remove the carbon. I did see the very slightest blue tint to one of those patches wetted with Shooter's Choice.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I burn a lot of 4166 and Ive never had an issue with my Labradar and inertial trigger. Using Hammer bullets, I get no discernible copper in the barrel and cleaning is fast and easy. I tested with 4451 and found it seemed to be dirtier at lower pressure, but then I think most powders behave that way. Accuracy came on just before high pressure signs. Ive had such good results with 4166 in several cartridges that I sold my Varget. As a test last year, I loaded the same bullets with 4166 and a non CFE powder and there was copper on the lands without CFE as opposed to none with CFE in my match barrels. I have a factory 223 Savage barrel that looks like a washboard from end to end and it coppers bad with all powders I tried in it.

 

[Laurie]

Ive had such good results with 4166 in several cartridges that I sold my Varget.

Can you say which cartridges, please. (I'm interested as I've done some work with it in 223 with 77s and no data source other than Hodgdon's Annual Manual gives any loads for it despite looking from its spec as ideally suited to this combination - or for any other 223 loads. Larger cartridges with 308 size cases, plenty of published data so it apparently suits them better.)

 

[SeabeeKen]

Can you say which cartridges, please. (I'm interested as I've done some work with it in 223 with 77s and no data source other than Hodgdon's Annual Manual gives any loads for it despite looking from its spec as ideally suited to this combination - or for any other 223 loads. Larger cartridges with 308 size cases, plenty of published data so it apparently suits them better.)

I use it in 257 Ackley, 284 Win, and 7x57 Ackley with light hunting bullets. I tested it in 250 AI, 308, and 243 AI. 250 did well but liked another powder slightly better. I will test it in the new 6XC and 244AI once they are complete.

 

[Bill K]

Most of my powders, as more of them do now, have the decoppering agent. some don't. It does seems like it does work in aiding in the cleaning process and less copper smear, but that, in a way, does not matter to me, as I clean my rifles after every shoot anyway. So regardless, that is what anyone should do, to properly care for your firearms.

 

[RegionRat]

Anybody else have trouble when running reloads using a de-coppering powder (in my case CFE223) and difficulty getting LabRadar to consistently register shots? I'm using an inertial trigger and the same brass and bullets, but without a de-coppering powder registered every time. It gave me the impression that it was behaving like chaff. Have not revisited after that first incident, so it could have been some other factor. I like muzzle brakes and even stand up a rectangular, concrete paver between the muzzle and my shooting table top mounted LabRadar, as a shield. Get some weird looks but it normally helps.

Hoot

Hoot, I have run lots of CFE223 in 5.56 and 204 Ruger without any LabRadar issues. Considering I did this for PD ammo with several different guns and bullets, that's a lot of sessions and shot strings. I also run an external trigger.