Decisions, decisions..

[ChrisNZ]

After agonising about this for a while, I thought I'd throw this question to the forum.

After coming back from Africa and seeing how tough some bigger plains game are, I thought I'd build another rifle to take back there on the next visit. I already have a range of standard hunting rifles such as 7-08 and .270 and these are fine for New Zealand red deer.

I have a spare commercial '98 action and suitable stock at hand. Choosing the cartridge is the tricky bit.
These are the considerations:
- want to avoid serious recoil and aren't keen on a brake so that prob takes the .30s out
- need to fit the '98 action so length is an issue
- trying to avoid major brass work on wildcats
- not very keen on belted cases

Some of the options I've considered are 7mm SAUM, 7mm Dakota and reluctantly a plain 7Rem Mag

Your thoughts please?

Chris-NZ

 

[TheSnake]

What is your max range and what grain bullets are you considering? And just curious, why no brake?

 

[ChrisNZ]

I don't plan to routinely shoot over 400yds and certainly long range is frowned upon in Africa it seems.
I'd think some premium projectiles in 160-165 range would be suitable (assuming 7mm).

I'm only against brakes for the annoyance they cause other people. I have various sets of electronic plugs so no worry to me.

Chris-NZ

 

[MrMajestic]

The SAUM seems to be the hot ticket now. I"m having one built on a 700LA as we speak. Basically a 7mm Rem Mag ballistic-ally with less powder. As we have learned less can be more. I'm looking to shoot the 180gr. Berger VLD so have twisted and throated accordingly.

 

[TheSnake]

Given your preferences, I would also go with the SAUM. I shoot Bergers and would load the 168 for shots 400 and less. If I expected to shoot over 400 yards, I would load the 180s. If I needed more power, I would go with the 7mm STW with 180s and a brake. I don't feel that a brake would be that much of annoyance in a hunt since you are not shooting that many shots. It's about you with a clean kill and reducing the recoil should enhance your ability to accomplish that.

 

[bozo699]

Just try finding a guide that will take you hunting with a braked rifle, you will get the bottom of the barrel, (the new guy)
Wayne.

 

[ChrisNZ]

My aversion to brakes pre-dates your last comment but good point.

Just looking at other threads on this sub-forum, I see the .280AI mentioned. Now there's a definite possibility and I wouldn't even have to modify the follower to get it feeding. How much is it behind any of the smaller magnums?

Chris-NZ

 

[bozo699]

Chris,
I have not had the pleasure of hunting Africa yet however I can't imagine the 280AI not being able to get the job done, I would think it to be a excellent choice. It should have a little more then a .284 win and a little less then a 7mm Rem mag, best of luck to you.
Wayne.

P.S my comment wasn't directed to you about the brake, I already gathered you didn't want one. There were a couple of comments about them and I do know from experience that guides HATE them, I have a few rifles with brakes on them and are not that fond of them myself, not to mention the poor guy spotting for you.

 

[newboy]

Ive been to Africa a few times now and love it , great sport.
The thing that is so very different to what we pratice in the uk as aposed to African hunting is basicly braking bones with the bullet, sounds odd dosent it.
Most every other hunting country will air towards less meat damage by taking a chest or neck shot.

I will explian my self , the PH will actively tell you to shoot through the shoulder of the beasts you are hunting (we would avoid a shot like that like the plauge in the UK ).

Most game in Africa has the Hart lung area forward of european and weston game (closer between the shoulder blades)
That brings you to take a closer look at bullet selection specaily designed for the job on tough animals .

I know you said you are against 30s BUT they are the best Cal for the job in hand ,Try the good old 3006 ,very mild recoil with a large range of bullet types to choose from, and great knock down power tested time and again in Africa and well respected .
I belive there has been an 06 used from time to time in the good old USA to

 

[ChrisNZ]

I had thought of the 30-06 but in comparison a .280 Ackley with 180s has slightly more power with very good SD so it should perform well enough.

I've seen what African stuff can soak up before expiring. One of the guys shot a big kudu fair through the centre of the neck at ~50yds with a basic 150gr out of a .308. It went down then got up and kept running. The projectile was recovered (after two more finishing shots..) and it had come apart and failed to penetrate.

The most surprising thing I saw was an impala buck shot sideways through what appeared to be the centre of its head with a 174SP out of a .303. They was surprised when it took off. I spotted it dead later that afternoon more than a kilometre away! The entry hole on one side and the ~5/8" exit hole on the other side of its head showed he'd fired a good shot but it must have been just under the cranium. Tough beasts..

Chris-NZ

 

[bozo699]

I had thought of the 30-06 but in comparison a .280 Ackley with 180s has slightly more power with very good SD so it should perform well enough.

I've seen what African stuff can soak up before expiring. One of the guys shot a big kudu fair through the centre of the neck at ~50yds with a basic 150gr out of a .308. It went down then got up and kept running. The projectile was recovered (after two more finishing shots..) and it had come apart and failed to penetrate.

The most surprising thing I saw was an impala buck shot sideways through what appeared to be the centre of its head with a 174SP out of a .303. They was surprised when it took off. I spotted it dead later that afternoon more than a kilometre away! The entry hole on one side and the ~5/8" exit hole on the other side of its head showed he'd fired a good shot but it must have been just under the cranium. Tough beasts..

Chris-NZ

Chris,
I don't think you would go wrong with your choice other then if your ammo got lost or miss placed in flight it might be hard to replace it in Africa however 30-06 would be easy to replace on just about any continent.

A response to your Impala statement, I personally think head shots on any game animals is probably the worst possible choice, a very large target with a very little immediate kill zone. As a young man and showing off for my friends I decided to show off my marksmanship and dropping power of my dads 7mmRM and shot a Rocky Mountain elk in the head @ about 100 yards, I hit it about 5" lower then intended and took his lower jaw off, about a month later while cleaning out a water diversion out of a creek we used for watering cattle I found my Elk, STILL ALIVE,.... barely he was standing in the middle of the creek trying to take on water with no jaw, he hadn't ate since I shot him, it was a ghastly sight that I will never forget as long as I live, I have never stopped feeling bad about it, a Majestic animal that I wounded due to a inappropriate and improperly placed shot, that suffered terribly because of it.
Wayne.

 

[ChrisNZ]

A nasty experience like that would sure focus your mind.

It's always struck me as iffy going for headshots on feeding deer. At 100yds, it may only be ~1/3sec from when you decide to fire to when the bullet impacts but if they lift their head at the instant of firing, the bullet could well take their bottom jaw off.

While it may waste a bit of meat, I prefer to anchor them with a more certain shoulder shot.

Chris-NZ

 

[bozo699]

A nasty experience like that would sure focus your mind.

It's always struck me as iffy going for headshots on feeding deer. At 100yds, it may only be ~1/3sec from when you decide to fire to when the bullet impacts but if they lift their head at the instant of firing, the bullet could well take their bottom jaw off.

While it may waste a bit of meat, I prefer to anchor them with a more certain shoulder shot.Chris-NZ

Chris,
Absolutely, I totally agree with you, you can hunt with me anytime but the Impala shooter can not,..LOL
Wayne.

 

[jonbearman]

Why not a 30-06 ackley,that way you can shoot factory and handloads specific to the ackley. Just a thought for slightly more power and interchangeabilty. Then use barnes solid copper bullets. Wayne 3 seasons ago I tracked a deer here in my area and found the lower jaw hanging by a thread,I shot and missed him so I ran him down till I shot him and put him out of his misery. It almost caused me to stop hunting. But at least he didnt suffer long as the neighbors shoot at least 15 slugs at every running deer that happen by them. Everyone makes mistake's and the one's that do,learn from them.Unfortunatly these guys dont as I* find a few deer that were grossly wounded every season that I hunt the property.

 

[bankenfeld]

Hallo Chris
,I am a cattle and game rancher in South-Africa.I do alot of hunting ,and culling of game animals for the venison market.I do believe that bullet construction does play a part but the most important part of shooting will always be shot placement ,and that goes for any caliber.

The calibers that I use the most for culling is 222Rem,25-06Rem and 270Win ackley improved, shots are up to 400 meters and must be brain shots in order that there will be no meat damage.The 222rem is used up to 250 meters and the others for longer shots.

My favorite caliber for hunting large animals in bushveld and plains areas is 300H&H , I use a 200gr Nosler partition on that rifle.
I believe that a 30-06 or a 7x64 brenneke will cover most of your needs,both can be built on K98 actions ,and they will not murder you with recoil,Just as a point of interest,for every one 280 rem in RSA there must be at least thirty 7x64 rifles,280 rem is not at all popular over here,the ballistic similar 7x64 are quite common.

Hope this is of help
Cheers

Willem

 

[swampshooter]

There's not enough actual performance difference on game (killing power) between a .270 and one of the 7 mags. Don't bother. In order to achieve a noticeable increase in killing power it will be necessary to skip the 300 mags and go to a .338 win mag. If you didn't already have a good .270 I would suggest a 300 mag., although the .300 mag will give increased killing power over the .270, it's not really enough to justify the cost in dollars and recoil. Do yourself a favor and get a .338 win mag.

 

[RDavies]

Something not mentioned so far is magazine capacity and feeding. Do the 7 SAUMs feed as reliably from a magazine as a 270,280AI or 30-06?
How many cartridges do RSAUMs hold in the mag, is it usualy 3? The 270s, 280s,30-06s etc usualy hold 4-5 or more.
I know you all have 1 shot kills unlike me so maybe this doesnt matter.
Also, does South Africa have the rule that the cartridge head stamp must match the caliber of the rifle you have registered to bring in, or is that one of the neighboring countries? Might make some wildcats tricky to bring in.

 

[kemen4]

Just returned from a Kudu & Sprinbok hunt in the E.Cape.
For Kudu the guns were 6.5x55: 7x64: 308: 300 & 375 H&H.
ForS' Bok- 222: 243: x55: 7x64: 300H&H.
Asking at the local Gunshop, 303, 7&8 x57 and 9.3x62 were added to the mix, with 3xx Mag being mentionned for 'visitors'.
From the talk there seems to be much interest in smaller calibres using locally made, light monometal bullets at a warp factor .. for just about everything.
Given the DRAFT S.African Standards& Norms being promulgated there will (may?) be minimum bullet weights for the various game species.
But as said by Willem its 'shot placement' that brings home the Bok. And his advice seems to reflect what happens here.

 

[ChrisNZ]

Something not mentioned so far is magazine capacity and feeding. Do the 7 SAUMs feed as reliably from a magazine as a 270,280AI or 30-06?..

The answer is probably "not without a lot of mucking about to get them to work" and that's why I've decided to go with .280AI.

My gunsmith (he now regrets doing it) once converted his father's nice old .318 Westley-Richards to .308 Norma Mag and even after a lot of work, it never fed well from the mag. He said "I'll chamber your gun to anything you want but if it's not something like a 30-06 case, you can get it feeding" :-\

Chris-NZ

 

[7 loader]

New boy is right. But the 7mm RM gives a good fight to it. The belt is there for a reason. In climates like Africa you need possitive head spacing. a follow up shot may be a nessity and a round without a rim or a belt may not extract right after a shot if headspaced off the shoulder.