Decapping/Depriming

[lazyMlazyK]

I'm looking into getting a Redding S-Type Full Length Sizing Bushing Die for sizing 6.5 Creedmoor. I've been using a standard RCBS die with the expander ball, but want to get away from the expander ball in favor of controlling neck tension with bushings. But, looking at Redding's site, it looks like the S-Type dies still have an expander ball/mandrel in them? If so, what is the bushing doing if you're still pulling an expander ball/mandrel through the mouth after the mouth has been sized by the bushing? I must be missing something. Can someone help me understand how these dies work?

 

[GLShooter]

They include a decapping pin holder with the set that doesn't touch the case necks. If your set does not come with it they have always been good about sending one out free if you call them.

Greg

 

[lazyMlazyK]

Awww that makes sense. Is there any reason NOT to decap with the die? I've seen alot of people like to decap with a separate die or tool. I don't know why that would be necessary, if you have the option to size and decap in one step.

 

[GLShooter]

No particular reason but I decap separately so I can throw the cases in the SS media and get the pockets nice and clean. I am a tad averse to depriming crimped brass like 556 with the die as I want a stouter set up as some of those can be problematic in their tightness.

Greg

 

[madmixerman]

They usually come with an undersize connector to hold the decapping pin. I removed all the stems out of my dies, I use a decapping die instead.

 

[darkangel_r2]

Awww that makes sense. Is there any reason NOT to decap with the die? I've seen alot of people like to decap with a separate die or tool. I don't know why that would be necessary, if you have the option to size and decap in one step.

Clean primer pockets. If you deprime and size in one step your primer pockets will always be dirty unless you clean the brass again. Also it can get a little grit into your press which can make it wear faster. Every other step happens with clean brass and has little chance of introducing grit or other abrasives into the press or dies. I've got a lee bushing single stage press for this and other less precision necessary processes.

Also you can still use an expander ball with neck bushings all they will do is the tighter the bushing the more the brass will spring back after the ball is dragged though the neck. This is not ideal as it can misalign the brass neck and shoulders and work your brass more. It does still function to control neck tension just not ideally. The only benefit to doing this is so that the imperfections in the brass are smoothed out inside the neck.

Expander mandrel after bushing die works much better I think if you want that effect. If you trim your necks and anneal often enough just the bushing die with the right bushing will give you good control over neck tension.

 

[Pawnee Bill]

Deprime separately

 

[Chuckhunter]

Awww that makes sense. Is there any reason NOT to decap with the die? I've seen alot of people like to decap with a separate die or tool. I don't know why that would be necessary, if you have the option to size and decap in one step.

Most LR Benchrest shooters deprime separately so they can anneal before they resize.

 

[darkangel_r2]

Most LR Benchrest shooters deprime separately so they can anneal before they resize.

I think Erik Cortina anneals with spent primers in. Not sure why. But spent primers shouldn't prevent annealing. Live ones would lol.

If you get any soot or film on the brass from annealing doing that before tumbling might make them more consistent possibly? But there isn't really a reason not to deprime before annealing. Got to do both steps anyway.

I think its probably a good idea to do both before cleaning. That way you get cleaner pockets (before you do any other pocket cleaning if you want) and any possible residue from annealing gets clean off too.

 

[lazyMlazyK]

Most LR Benchrest shooters deprime separately so they can anneal before they resize.

Why not anneal with spent primers in? If using a dry tumbling media like corncob, the primer pockets don't get cleaned anyway, whether the primer is out or in - at least in my experience. Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I shoot, anneal, tumble, decap/rezise (one step, currently) trim, clean primer pockets, champfer/debur, brush neck ID, load.

Cleaning primer pockets, champfer/debur, and brushing neck ID happens on a Lyman case prep station.

 

[Oso]

From annealing standpoint, spent primers left in case or removed/deprimed does not affect the annealing process. Not heating case enough to elevate case temperature beyond the area being annealed. After annealing it is recommended to polish both inside and outside of neck because of metal oxidation that occurs during the annealing process. It can scratch up your sizing die and also the expander mandrel and bullets.

Perfect world for me making brass for precision rifle: universal depriming die to remove primers and then wet tumble (steel pins) the cases, which helps to also clean out primer pockets. Next I FL resize (no expander ball/button). Then I anneal and polish necks (inside & out), and then I use a separate neck expander mandrel

If I am dealing with range brass for bulk reloads then I anneal after cleaning, but before resizing (don't know what condition of brass might be in).

 

[darkangel_r2]

Perfect world for me making brass for precision rifle: universal depriming die to remove primers and then wet tumble (steel pins) the cases, which helps to also clean out primer pockets. Next I FL resize (no expander ball/button). Then I anneal and polish necks (inside & out), and then I use a separate neck expander mandrel

wouldn't annealing before resizing make more sense? The whole point is to make the brass more pliable so it sizes consistently. Or am I wrong?

 

[darkangel_r2]

Why not anneal with spent primers in? If using a dry tumbling media like corncob, the primer pockets don't get cleaned anyway, whether the primer is out or in - at least in my experience. Maybe I'm off my rocker, but I shoot, anneal, tumble, decap/rezise (one step, currently) trim, clean primer pockets, champfer/debur, brush neck ID, load.

Cleaning primer pockets, champfer/debur, and brushing neck ID happens on a Lyman case prep station.

I only wet tumble with stainless but if you dry tumble and that doesn't get your primer pockets then there really isn't a point to depriming before annealing or cleaning.

I would say that you will get less grit in your press if you deprime on another device in a separate step. Even a lee hand press for like 50 bucks can do and it will spare some wear on your main press. Only thing I can see that would improve what you are currently doing.

I think wet tumbling gets things cleaner than dry but it has its own downsides so its up to you.

 

[D-4297]

Lots of different ways to skin this cat , and most of them are used by many . I Deprime with a De-priming Die and use primer pocket tool before first wash , to get the crud out . , Wet wash tumble with Dawn & Lemmi-Shine , No pins . Sun dry in Az. Sun . Anneal , Size , wash sizing wax off . Dry . Prime , Expand , de-burr necks , Load . Yeah I know I'm OCD . But it works for me .

 

[wkdickinson]

I am no expert, but I now deprime separately because I don't want the the "depriming" stem centering the die. For along time I used the Forster Type-S dies with a bushing that only squeezed the neck down 3-4 thousandths smaller than needed (unlike more factory dies that go down 6-7), then I let the expander button do it's thing. I have since gone to removing the expander button from all of my dies. I now deprime in a separate operation, then size to about 2-3 thousands less than I ultimately want and finish size the neck with a mandrel. More operations and more work, but the resulting ammo is worth it.

 

[Oso]

wouldn't annealing before resizing make more sense? The whole point is to make the brass more pliable so it sizes consistently. Or am I wrong?

Depends.... there are two camps on this. Basically, so long as you do your annealing sequence consistently (either before or after FL sizing) then you are going to have consistent neck tension from shot group/reload to shot group/reload.

Depending upon how loose or tight your chamber, it may result in the brass being worked a lot or very little. I have several factory rifles with generous (loose) chambers/necks. I anneal these cases before resizing to soften the metal before reducing the necks back down to spec. I do the same when using range brass because I don't know how many times the cases have been shot/work hardened. No use in resizing a work hardened case that has significant spring back. Better to anneal beforehand.

 

[dogdude]

I decap with a decapping die so I can feel if I have a loose primer pocket.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I use a decapping die so I can wash the brass before sizing. I don't use pins, just a hour in hot water/jungle Jake cleaner/ 1 oz of real lemon juice in the tumbler. Clean and shiny,dry and size.

 

[PhilC]

My Redding type-S dies came with decapping rod assemblies including a tapered expander ball. I deprime with a universal decapping die and size with the expander assembly removed from the type-S die.

 

[fatelvis]

I think the consensus is that cleaned vs Uncleaned pockets doesn’t affect group size at all. I never clean primer pockets on my pistol or rifle brass, and I really don’t think it hurts me accuracy wise.