Daydreaming about ELR: 338 Edge vs 300 PRC

[Dud]

I'm building up a budget 284 now, hopefully it will shoot the mile well and maybe 2,000 yards if I'm really lucky.

I have another action that can take CIP length magazines. I was initially thinking of building it as a better 284 but reading about 300 PRC it got me thinking and then I started to wonder if there is a similar chambering that is less overbore by using a .338 bullet?

It seems like 300 PRC might have brass issues and one person went as far as fire forming RWS 8x68 brass to do better.

Does 338 Edge have good parent brass?

Will either of these take me out to 2,500 yards with half decent hit probability?

Is there anything else I should look at?

I might fall back to my 284 plan but just want to know if going bigger can significantly extend the reach.

 

[Terry]

.338 Edge uses .300 RUM brass. There are several good choices for brass.

 

[284winner]

Definitely the 338 Edge. Not even in the same class as the 300 PRC despite what Hornady's adds say. If your going out to 2500 yards, a 300 grain bullet is a better choice than anything 200 in the 30 caliber.

 

[dragman]

in my opinion only each caliber has it's "magic window" now there is a lot of interpretation to this but it goes like so.
6mm's - 100-1000 they rule in accuracy
7mm's - 800-1250 they can work miracles
30 cal - 1000-1500 hard to beat them
338 - over 1500 nothing smaller is going to beat them period.

obliviously the size of the case will determine the finer points and there is crossover between them, but each seem to shine at distances and between a 30 and a 338 I think the 30 OWNS everything under 1500 and the 338 takes everything over.

 

[Dud]

Interesting scale, but going from a 284 that will fit in a 3.56" magazine with room to spare to a 300 PRC or 338 Edge that step up to a magnum bolt face and fill out a CIP length 3.85" magazine, I would want quite a bit more reach.

I have asked a target maker about cutting a 40x20" elipse target so I don't have to use heavy equipment to set it up. The idea is a target that gives about 1 MOA vertical and 2 MOA windage at 2,000 yards.

I am sure I will do some shorter range shooting for groups but what I'm looking for is how far I can set that and still get 50% or greater hit probability (if I do my part and have a good wind call).

Some people suggest going with a 338 just to see more splash when it's a miss which is probably a good reason to move up but I would like to ignore that for now.

I have shot a 338LM before. It was punishing and obnoxious which is why my step up from 6.5 Creedmoor is a 284. If I step up from 284, I want to try and minimize the punishment and muzzle blast again.

If there is a combination of weight and muzzle device that will make it feel more like a .308 and not clear out a firing line with muzzle blast, let me know.

 

[284winner]

Interesting scale, but going from a 284 that will fit in a 3.56" magazine with room to spare to a 300 PRC or 338 Edge that step up to a magnum bolt face and fill out a CIP length 3.85" magazine, I would want quite a bit more reach.

I have asked a target maker about cutting a 40x20" elipse target so I don't have to use heavy equipment to set it up. The idea is a target that gives about 1 MOA vertical and 2 MOA windage at 2,000 yards.

I am sure I will do some shorter range shooting for groups but what I'm looking for is how far I can set that and still get 50% or greater hit probability (if I do my part and have a good wind call).

Some people suggest going with a 338 just to see more splash when it's a miss which is probably a good reason to move up but I would like to ignore that for now.

I have shot a 338LM before. It was punishing and obnoxious which is why my step up from 6.5 Creedmoor is a 284. If I step up from 284, I want to try and minimize the punishment and muzzle blast again.

If there is a combination of weight and muzzle device that will make it feel more like a .308 and not clear out a firing line with muzzle blast, let me know.

Experience is the real answer. You can't build a rifle, even a 375/408/416 and expect good results without being behind it a while. Learn the rifle and it's capability. Learn the ballistics, wind and conditions your shooting in. Nothing, absolutely nothing beats range time with a rifle. Also that 3.850 CIP magazine is an outside measurement. It can accept 3.750 OAL rounds. To go longer, a single feed will be necessary. Too get the most from the 338 RUM, you'll want to feed single rounds by hand

 

[DaveTooley]

The PRC brass isn't as bad as everyone says. Most people are trying to make it go almost as fast as 300 NM. It won't do it no matter who makes the brass. I've shot the then, 300 AI, now PRC against a Lapua @ 2K. Groups were essentially the same size. I think the PRC had an inch or two more vertical but I was holding high in a cedar tree in a 17 MPH Nebraska cross wind. If I had a place where conditions were moderate and I could see impacts I would go 30 cal. because of accuracy. If I had a place where conditions were nasty and seeing impacts is iffy then I'd give up some accuracy and go 338.

 

[Dud]

Experience is the real answer. You can't build a rifle, even a 375/408/416 and expect good results without being behind it a while. Learn the rifle and it's capability. Learn the ballistics, wind and conditions your shooting in. Nothing, absolutely nothing beats range time with a rifle. Also that 3.850 CIP magazine is an outside measurement. It can accept 3.750 OAL rounds. To go longer, a single feed will be necessary. Too get the most from the 338 RUM, you'll want to feed single rounds by hand

Yep, I know it's an outside measurement. I used it to match the 3.56" outside measurement of the oddball MDT magazine my 284 will use.

Speaking of 338 RUM, I read that it is shorter than 338 Edge and I would rather not single feed. Is it possible to make either of those perform to their potential inside of that 3.78" magazine length?

 

[Terry]

Where is Birddog? He knows more about these that anyone I know. He and his close friends have shot most, if not all of the above.

 

[wi50]

If you read the internet enough, you will be able to shoot a real elr match with a 6.5 Creed. But if you go to any real matches, you would find that a 338 edge would be marginally enough. Everyone seams to be under the belief that 300 gr Berger's rule, and that they'll hit the target. What you'll come to find out fast is that the Berger's fall out of the sky to fast, the solids will go a lot further and that the .338 will be dang hard to spot misses and make accurate corrections.

 

[Terry]

If you read the internet enough, you will be able to shoot a real elr match with a 6.5 Creed. But if you go to any real matches, you would find that a 338 edge would be marginally enough. Everyone seams to be under the belief that 300 gr Berger's rule, and that they'll hit the target. What you'll come to find out fast is that the Berger's fall out of the sky to fast, the solids will go a lot further and that the .338 will be dang hard to spot misses and make accurate corrections.

Interesting

Any bullet test links?

Thanks!

 

[D.Stone]

I've recently got into the 338 caliber game.

I still think 30 caliber is the way to go unless you are exclusively shooting ELR. It's just much harder to deal with the recoil and muzzle of the big 338s compared to a big 30 caliber.

The 338s are better at longer distances, and especially with solids, but spotting your own misses can be challenging in some circumstances. Also, being expensive to shoot might dissuade someone from doing something that really matters... practice!

A fast 300WM (or PRC in this case) is capable out to around 2km...I was able to spot misses in a wet grass field with mine out to 2K in a rifle match, and it's a huge advantage to be able to know where your bullet went.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

This time of year we are doing a lot of shooting at 1k with the big rifles. A 300 with a 215 is not in the same class as a .338 with a 300. I dont care what the numbers say, when you shoot enough next to each other you see how different bullets hold up in conditions. Even though the numbers would not make you believe it, the 230 does considerably better in wind than the 215. I was surprised at the difference. Theres a 2000yd match for group and score thats been held the last couple years and I would call it a .338 and up game with out a doubt. When I shot an edge, It started to fall off bad past 2k. 2500 was not consistent. If your serious about 2500 I would sell your action and get a single shot lapua boltface and build a 338 lapua improved. Both the edge and lapua will be 4"+ when throated right. It will run the 300s at 3000 with very impressive accuracy, its an excellent cartridge. You can really be fooled into thinking your shooting a lot better than you are when shooting a dirt berm or some other impact area. Hang a steel target and paint it or paper so you can measure it up.

 

[284winner]

Yep, I know it's an outside measurement. I used it to match the 3.56" outside measurement of the oddball MDT magazine my 284 will use.

Speaking of 338 RUM, I read that it is shorter than 338 Edge and I would rather not single feed. Is it possible to make either of those perform to their potential inside of that 3.78" magazine length?

Sorry I meant the Edge which is based on the RUM.

 

[284winner]

Yep, I know it's an outside measurement. I used it to match the 3.56" outside measurement of the oddball MDT magazine my 284 will use.

Speaking of 338 RUM, I read that it is shorter than 338 Edge and I would rather not single feed. Is it possible to make either of those perform to their potential inside of that 3.78" magazine length?

I cannot answer that. Personally I do not own one. I improved the 338 LM because it does optimize the 338 Lapua. I have a repeater but single feed when running the 4.00" + round.

 

[284winner]

The PRC brass isn't as bad as everyone says. Most people are trying to make it go almost as fast as 300 NM. It won't do it no matter who makes the brass. I've shot the then, 300 AI, now PRC against a Lapua @ 2K. Groups were essentially the same size. I think the PRC had an inch or two more vertical but I was holding high in a cedar tree in a 17 MPH Nebraska cross wind. If I had a place where conditions were moderate and I could see impacts I would go 30 cal. because of accuracy. If I had a place where conditions were nasty and seeing impacts is iffy then I'd give up some accuracy and go 338.

I'm building a 300 PRC in the near future. Considered the 300 NM but already having a 338 Lapua improved, I think the 300 PRC is a better fit for me. Planning on using it as a LR hunting rig and playing on steel targets for ultimate accuracy inside of a mile. More of a pleasure to shoot than the braked 338 LM Imp. Really don't want another lapua bolt face either. The brass for the NM is top notch but I'm guessing the 300 PRC will soon have better options.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I would expect to see ADG make 300 prc brass in the future. The good thing about the prc is Hornadys marketing should make it popular enough that I wouldn't be surprised to see lapua pick it up eventually as well. At least I can hope. I do have a thing for these big 30s.

 

[284winner]

The PRC brass isn't as bad as everyone says. Most people are trying to make it go almost as fast as 300 NM. It won't do it no matter who makes the brass. I've shot the then, 300 AI, now PRC against a Lapua @ 2K. Groups were essentially the same size. I think the PRC had an inch or two more vertical but I was holding high in a cedar tree in a 17 MPH Nebraska cross wind. If I had a place where conditions were moderate and I could see impacts I would go 30 cal. because of accuracy. If I had a place where conditions were nasty and seeing impacts is iffy then I'd give up some accuracy and go 338.

I enjoyed your written knowledge of the 300 PRC and even tho you did not compare it to the 300 NM in a manner that was "Which is better". You simply stated your experience with it over several years of shooting them. I think that's what set me on my path to build one. Sure the NM is a step up. The 06 is a step up from the 308 also but I still see truck loads of 308s every year in the field and in matches. I'm not real big on following the masses BUT with the information you provided on the PRC, I'm tending to follow that knowledge that you provided thru experience with it.

 

[DaveTooley]

I enjoyed your written knowledge of the 300 PRC and even tho you did not compare it to the 300 NM in a manner that was "Which is better". You simply stated your experience with it over several years of shooting them. I think that's what set me on my path to build one. Sure the NM is a step up. The 06 is a step up from the 308 also but I still see truck loads of 308s every year in the field and in matches. I'm not real big on following the masses BUT with the information you provided on the PRC, I'm tending to follow that knowledge that you provided thru experience with it.

I own both a 300 PRC and a 300 NM. I was the first one to get 300 NM brass in the country. Special project for special people.
They each have their place but as I'm fond of saying "the older I get I find I can do more with less" but more is fun sometimes. Something else that applies. The 80-20 rule.
Get 80% of your goal and you'll be OK. That last 20% can be expensive and elusive.

I'll add that if I was very serious about 2K I would have a dedicated single shot rifle like we used back in the 90's.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The 300 Norma Improved shines with the 230s. Mine is probably the most consistently accurate hunting rifle I have owned. By that I mean, how consistently it groups at 1k on multiple days. I only shoot rifles at 1k, all testing and load work is done at that range no matter the type of rifle. So I have a lot of experience with how hunting rifles act at that range. They can be finicky to keep on top of. The 300 prc, 30 Nosler, and 300 wm, are a better fit for that 215 class of bullet IMO. I think the 300 NI is a little too big for a 215. First, I dont want to run them that fast for expansion reasons, second, I dont really seem to get top accuracy pushing anything much over that 3000 fps range. But with 230s the NI is pretty efficient.