Day at the Range

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
This is what some of you guys need to do. Computer BR can be fun but it's time to show yourself what you have been advising others you can do yourself. Since I am in the middle of starting our Angeles BR program I need to get most of my fire-forming and load development done before I get in the middle of building shooting benches.
Today in about 4 hours I will be fire-forming brass for my HV. Little ole sleeved simple Rem 600 trued by Ferris Pindell, I have two these done by Pindell one on my Cruiser I will also shoot. My Cruiser is now my Pala gun 200-600M shooting. Weaver and Leupold scopes. Hart and Snake River barrels. My Cruiser weighs 16.5 lb. Hart rest of course Hoehn top.
If I get time I have a Rem 700 in 22-250 to shoot.
Normally I really push myself in practice shoot fast but watch flags and hold off. I will be be shooting 100 & 200. I believe shooting is what you put into it. Have fun but get all you can out yourself and your equipment.
My goal comes up in June. The SW Region Unlimited Championship. I am in the process of making up 1000 bullets 52.4 grn for my 22 PPC Rail. I will either shoot my Hart or Krieger barrel. I have been more than competitive with my 22 Rail. Lots of wood and several 200 yd aggs in the teens. Don't discount the 22 PPC. I shoot the full race full length 22 PPC. Either 133, H322, or 4895 lights up the targets.
Since I make my own bullets on Rorschach dies I make the decisions on how well the bullets do. Same with my Simonson 6 bullets. I made the decision a long time ago that I would control my bullet destiny.
Well time to shut up and go to war with the targets.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
Well I have had anther day at the Range with my 22 PPC Rail. I lost a day at the Range last week because when I tried to chamber my new Lapua nk turned brass I couldn't turn the handle down. The brass was turned correctly but the shoulder was just too far forward. Normally I can close the bolt on my other barrels with new PPC brass but these needed the shoulder moved back, I didn't have my FL dies or my press so I packed up and went back to my garage. I brought my full BR set-up next time set up my Forester FL 22 PPC die to just kiss the shoulder and had a smooth bolt closing on my Wichita. Remember I am fire forming new brass.
I filled my cases with H4895 3/4 of the way up the neck and used Sierra 50 grn bullets for the first firing. Let the bullets seat themselves medium nk tension. Shot all 25 new brass. Cleaned barrel brush old Hoppes No 9 rubbing alcohol for a clean dry barrel. Next I loaded all 25 with my bullets made on Rorschach 22 dies. These weighed 52.4 grn. Fresh off the mint the day before. Again 4895 powder loaded again 3/4 of the way up the neck, 4895 is one of those powders in a PPC that you can't get too much in.
Targets started to light up. The second shot on new Lapua brass is the one I concentrate on the most. I now start FL sizing with my Harrell number 3 die for the duration of the time I use these cases. Set the dies up to move the shoulder back a thou and ever so slightly size the body taper each time with a .003 size on the web area, this is BR sizing at it's best folks.
The second firing on a PPC case to me is the most important. After the first firing you still have a rounded feel on the shoulder body taper junction. The second firing needs to be done with another full load to seal the case in the chamber creating the sharp feel to the junction I mentioned, also helps eliminate blow by later. If not done correctly the case will never seal properly in the chamber. You will notice this if you shoot light to medium loads later. Then your full length sizing will be to waste and all you will be doing is pushing the shoulder back when you get tight bolt closing. You might as well nk size only because you blew your chance for having the best sizing possible on a PPC case, that being FL sizing.
The shooting went as well as could be expected at my practice range. The benches are concrete but the tops all have carpet on top. This is ok with my Hart rest because I can drive through to the concrete but my rail has shorter points and cannot reach the concrete for a good set. Never have shot well with my rail here. Practice here but can go to a Shoot the following week and light the targets on a BR bench, no carpet at NBRSA at least not on the bench tops. I have solved some of the point bounce that the carpet gives my rail gun by using Mike Sosenko aluminum disks. Now with a disk under each point I can move my 70 lb around no problem to where I want. A bump with my hand on the pints and the disk seals in the carpet for a solid base. You can still grab the rail and rock it but that is life on carpet. A rail on concrete when the points are set properly should not move.
Shooting was ok. Set 4 flags for 100 yd shooting. Used my tail forward center pivot arrow flags, Sinclair stands, light fast and move when other flags are tied up on their stands. Walked em out looking for wind thrusts. Never set flags with standard spacing each time. Try and get out of that conservative approach to shooting. Your not a robot, real world shooting prompts change to win.
Started with 5 shot groups. Shot 3 groups that measured in the 3's the largest being .331. And 3 groups in the 2's several .20x. I decided to shoot a couple 10 shot groups under what I call Match conditions. I hate shooting in light conditions because all this amounts to is a trigger pull with a Rail. The afternoon turned breezy just the way I like it at Inland Range, been my practice range for the last 20+ years. Kept my warm load of 4895 jamming the bullets in the throat. Cases were responding great. I shot 2 ten shot groups. First one a .313 second one .300. Not bad for 10 shots. I feel on concrete both those groups would have been in the 2's. You will need allot of 2's and maybe a .1 to win at the SW Region Unlimited at Visalia in June. For sure Lester Bruno, Gary Ocock, Don Nielson, Steve Kostanich, Del Bishop, Bob McGraw, Stu Harvey, Dennis Thornberry, Mike Sosenko, Gary Sinclair, Richard Mooers, Lou Murdica, Eric Stanton, Lawrence Weisdorn and now Dan Capps. Possibly Lowell Frei, Bryn Borras, Bob Brackney, Walt Berger, Chuck Miller. None of these guys will cut you any slack as they want to win the Championship too.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
Day 3 at the Range with my Rail. Not seeing the improvement I hoped for. Shot 5 shot groups 4 of them and a 10 shot. The 5 shot were 2's and 3's again and the 10 was another .3. Be glad to get off these carpeted concrete benches and on those Visalia concrete benches. This time it was breezy. Watching the big red range flag behind me things were a flappin all day long, lots of tail wind. When I got home my USA flag was trying to rip itself off it's pole. That's ok I would rather shoot in the wind than try and deal with the calm. Besides days like today make other shooters uneasy about their shooting.
Few shooting notes for the guys I am writing this to. In the kind of conditions I described which was a tail wind coming over my shoulder most of the day helped me to be aggressive in my shooting. You almost never get all 4 flags blowing in the same direction and if you did it could be worth an inch off your group or maybe 2 inches. So I play mix and match with my flags. I use 4 at 100 yds. I either shot 2 to the left 1/4 angle and the other 2 either center or 1/4 to the right. At times I was shooting front flag to the right 1/4 angles and the other 3 to the left full blow. Hard to control vertical on these days. Take what you get. Since I am shooting 22 PPC I am using a max load of H322 around 28 grn. H322 this is not like N133 with H322 it can spike quick so don't use my load go for your own.
Now is the time that I have to make some hard decisions about my Preparation for next months 10 shot Unlimited at Visalia. I figure on Visalia's benches I can turn my .3's into 2's but can I get the 1's that I need to win. Haven't shot 200 yd yet where groups in the 2's and 3's will be needed. Been in this position many times in Unlimited in the last 12 yrs I have shot the game. Usually do well but it takes more practice sessions with my Rail than my bag guns to produce the winning aggs. Extra time spent to work on technique. Trigger pulls must be paramount in my case, smoother the better but not slow. Ckeaning rhythm must be established. How often and how thorough.
I want to shoot on concrete benches without carpet. With this barrel shoot 200 yds before I make an evaluation of my current set-up. Waiting and ready to go is my 24" Krieger in 22 PPC. I am not using a 6 barrel this time because only 1 of them has ever shot better than my 22's and it needs a new chamber. The Krieger has been my killer 5 shot barrel at 200 having shot back to back .18 aggs at Visalia & Phoenix. But the Hart 22 PPC that I am using now has shot some low .1 aggs at 100.
Made a decision this morning I am going to Angeles tomorrow to get on those concrete benches with my Hart barrel, 100 & 200. Angeles Main range can be a blow but you need to test yourself and gun when preparing for any Shoot. I will change flags as my arrow flags were maxxed out yesterday several times. Will go back to my paddle flags, I never use propellers. Will use poles this time. What I like to do is set up stands first because they are easier to line up and replace them with poles. Cleaning I am going to be more aggressive now after each group. Hoppes No 9 the real deal and a new brass brush in the morning. Rubbing alcohol patches to dry out the barrel. Use some JB patches half way through the day.
Same powder same bullets. I have been making 22 bullets for the last 3 weeks. 52.4 grn flat base out of my Rorschach dies. As good as any Berger's or Gentner's that I have shot before.
I really enjoy the the I spend on Shoot preparation. No distractions except for the 2 cute lady shootist's on both my sides yesterday. Nice to watch them walk to and fro to change targets.
So. I will go Sunday to Angeles Range to make my decision on staying with the Hart or go to the Krieger. I am going to Visalia a day early on Thursday so I can shoot 200 first where there is less of a crowd and come back on Friday to get the minimal 100 yd practice time in to be ready for Saturday's start, June 16-17. Friday is the day the guys like to socialize. Like to talk to Del Bishop and Steve Kostanich.
Get back with you after tomorrow's practice day.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[Klong]

Sounds like a well thought out plan and that you enjoy the preparation time and the challenge of the decision. Good luck, Ken.

 

[tootalloutdoors]

The carpet on the concrete benches gets my attention. My range has a piece of carpet to lay on the concrete bench top. I've always used it just because it kept everything off the rough surface. Are you actually trying to dig the points of your rest into the concrete? Why?? I'm not critisizing. Just trying to learn something here. I also want to experiment with the top "squeeze" on my forearm. I don't compete bechrest yet just trying to figure things out. I hear about shooters using talcum and such so the gun will slide smoothly. Sometimes I hear about others squeezing their tops as tight as rules will allow.
Is it different ways for different disciplines or different ways for diferent shooters??

tootalloutdoors

 

[StephenPerry]

Toot
Not unusual to see carpet at Public Ranges. Inland Range the one I consider my home range has had carpet glued on for the 30 years I've been there. Yes I do drive my points through the carpet into the concrete tops if I can. I cannot do this with my Rail gun because my points are short and would never make the concrete. The gun would be moving on concrete if I tried this. I can only get to the concrete with my rests that have long points. But as I said earlier now I am using my 3 aluminum disks that I set my points on top of. Works okay with my rail gun juries out on my bag gun rests. In BR your rest must not move while you are shooting thus tapping into concrete benches.
Different ways for different shooters. Some use a front bag with no side pressure from flaps others like myself use a top like a Hoehn that allows side pressure when the stock is layed on top. I can't say one way is any better than the other. Stay away from using so much side pressure on your stock that the gun cannot be lifted straight up without the rest moving. Anytime I see a guy pulling his gun straight back instead of up and out I alert a referee to monitor the guy. The rule states the gun should be able to be lifted up. This can create some problems with some shooters that can't follow the rule.
Things like talc powder have been around as long as shooters have been using leather bags. Either raw or in a spray all works well. Now that velcro is being used by some in bags no powder is needed. The leather bag guys still use talc. I use talc on leather. These techniques are common to short range BR but are also used in other shooting disciplines.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[StephenPerry]

Lynn
I used to use drop-out on my bags until I figured out the graphite was taking the paint off my stock. Stock tape helps that but good old talc works good also unless things get wet then a satin cloth layed across your bags helps out.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[StephenPerry]

Lynn
That sounds great maybe some clear fingernail polish will keep the film material on the bag.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[jb1000br]

Lynn - screw the stock tape...spray 100% silicone on cordura...

JB

 

[StephenPerry]

Day at the Range
This day was a special day at the Range. This would be the first time that I shoot my Pala gun, tomorrow will be the first shoot for my gun. The gun is my Cruiser gun now my Pala gun. It is a pillar bed so my Cruiser barrel can go back in in 10 minutes. It is a Rem 600 sleeved action, 26" Krieger barrel, Sosenko Muzzle Break, Mc Millan stock, Jewell trigger, Lyman 36x scope, Kelbly 4 screw rings. Hart rest, Hoehn top, Edgewood bag. The caliber is 6x47 Lapua. Load is Hornady 105's with a hot load of I 4895, WSR primers. I looked but couldn't find a load for 4895 powder. My bud John worked one out with his program. It is hot but I am going to shoot it anyway. I shot a couple shots at 100 and then set for 200. I shot 15 shots for the day this leaves me 85 for tomorrow's shoot. After testing some conditions, it was windy out there at 200, I shot a couple 3 shot groups and a 5 shot group. It is hard for me to realize that all my guns are not BR guns. I expect so much out of my comp guns that it amazes me I can't shoot them all the same. This 6x47 is not a BR gun at least not yet. I think I make better bullets than any commercial bullet maker so it is a matter time that I get a point die that will allow me to make 105's. For now I will buy whatever Match 105 I can. My 3 shot groups were a .5 and a .710. My 5 shot was a 1.1. In each group the horizontal measured less than the vertical. That is ok because each of the groups would put the 200m gerbel in outer space. I pulled my Leupold sight caps and set my scope for 0,0 at 200. Tomorrow John will give the scope setting for 300-600. I will shoot a couple shots at each and be off to the races.
The Berger clan will be there tomorrow to try their hand at Pala. All will be shooting borrowed guns. I expect if the girl gets hot we might get a lesson. Talking about Michell Gallagher National Hi-power Champion. Eric Stecker and another Berger guy will shoot. John prepared 7 of his own guns and loaded all the ammo for this crowd and a few others.
I'm as ready as I can be. First time I shot Pala knocked down 46x50 animals with one of John's guns. John sets his loaner up so well all you have to do is judge the wind. Last time I shot another of John's and shot 15x50, the scope settings blew away and so did my day. This time I will take better care of the scope settings and try my best to let you know who shot what at Pala tomorrow. Remember the back distance is 600m 10 pasture poodles standing up not much to shoot at but good bench technique and nose for the wind can get the job done. I knocked down all 10 my first time at it.
Let you guys know tomorrow what happened.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[Forum Boss]

Stephen,

I don't know if John was using Quickload, but just an FYI, that program over-estimates the velocity,hence underestimates the pressure) you get from IMR 4895. It's just a matter of having not-so-good data built in. On the other hand, results are pretty accurate with Hodgdon powders if you use the ADI equivalent,e.g. 2208 for Varget).

FYI, if that is a 6mm-6.5x47 you're shooting, most guys,incl. shooter of the year Joel Kendrick) told me accuracy and ES improved dramatically once the cases were fire-formed.

Good luck at the match! Remember the Turkeys are harder than they look with their odd body shape.

 

[StephenPerry]

Moderator
All the shooters look like turkeys down there. This was a first firing on these cases, they are now 6x47 Lapua. I just received my Redding FL button die from Sinclair. But I haven't received the buttons they are with the brass order from Bruno. John FL sized the 100 cases I am loading.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[vmthtr]

Stephen,
Why not make longer points for your rail? Wouldn't that be an easy fix and let you get through the carpet?

Mike

 

[StephenPerry]

Vmthtr
Longer points would work but I am trying to sell myself on these aluminum disks for use on concrete benches.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[Freestate101]

Hate to sound dumb, but what is Pala? From what I read in the threads, it sounds like modified benchrest silhouette.

 

[StephenPerry]

Freestate
Pala is the name of the town South of Temecula that we shoot Varmint Rifle Silouhette once a month. The course is 50 targets 10 each at 200-600m. The only restrictions on the rifle is 6.5 cal or less and bullets 105 or close or less. Check the Pala Shooting web under Varmint Rifle Silhouette. We start at 9 usually done around 1.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[StephenPerry]

Day at the Range
Another productive shooting session. My goal today was to fire form cases for my Rem 600 HV and sight-in my Hall LV. Tried to get there by 9 AM but was finishing pointing-up the 6mm bullets I was going to shoot in my HV. Had to stop on the way to pick up my locking gas cap at the GM dealer. Finally at 11 I pulled into the parking lot at Inland Range. My buddy Chuck is the RO on Thursday/Friday there. He looked at his watch and said last firing period is at 4:45. I laughed he knows I will be done by 3:30.
Since I was the only guy loading at the Range I get allot of interest. I don't mind as long as the same guy doesn't keep coming back with more questions. Once I get in a zone I don't pay much attention about what's going on with the rest of the Range. Load Development takes all my energy at the Range unless there is a nice filly shooting close by which is rare.
I always set flags of one kind or another. I practice what I preach in setting flags. I walk them out looking for wind thrusts. Usually end up with 1 close but no so close that the overhead is giving a false read. This time I had 1 flag at about 20 yds and the other 3 out to 50 yds. I see no need for a flag close to the target at any distance, all the wind conditions next to the target are too late to help, the bullet is already committed no wind is going to effect your bullet placement if you haven't picked it up previously. In other words a flag at 95 yds for a 100 yd target is well wishing watch the flags closest to you. Chuck our RO at Inland hangs a streamer on his target board feeling he has covered all the winds between him and the target. Chuck was a very good silhouette shooter and had to judge windage by the seat of his pants. I can show him on target which way the winds were blowing by the patterns of his shots. He agrees but he is shooting a rifle on it's best day of a 1/2 inch group. That's a lot to ask of a shooter and a rifle that when 2 shots hit he doesn't know why that happens. A BR rifle is a laboratory for wind reading. If done properly every shot following will hit the first shot. If not done right your group looks like it has a missing tooth.
Well back to what I was doing. I had 25 Lapua cases neck turned for my Hart barrel. This is a barrel I have had for awhile. Smithed by Bob Sutton it has always been hot barrel a .21xx agg at 200 yds at Phoenix and several teen aggs when it counted. Most times a low to middle 2 agg barrel. I only have one barrel that has been shot much over a 1000 rds that being my Hart 22 PPC that has over 14,000 rds. The 22 barrel will still go out and agg .25 or less. The 22 has kept allot of mileage off my other barrels over the years. For this 6 barrel I only fire formed 20 cases more than enough for a 100/200 yd comp barrel.
The necks measured .2595 after turning my bullets measure .2434 at the pressure ring. This gives a .2613 measurement at the widest part of the neck without getting into the turned shoulder most call this the measurement where the pressure ring of the bullet fits into the neck. A small tip here if you are going to load for fitted necks you should have a 1/10 micrometer. Of course the whole Western World is flooded with Chinese or some Asian instruments so join the New World and buy one. Mine is a no name as most are electronic digital micrometer that my wife bought me on my buddy Gene's recommendation. Works great fast and zero's if you need to. Don't fear some white guys are making their cut on importing these precise instruments. If you have a digital mike you are in the game also in case preparation. If you are handloading for a factory barrel try and get things close a 1/100 is more than enough for this type of loading.
My barrel with pin gages runs a .2624 chamber neck measurement so I know I can get as close as .2615 and feel safe but that is not the number I am looking for. I want something in the .261x range. In this case I am at .2615 with a seated bullet measured on the neck at the pressure ring. There are no magic numbers where a barrel will shoot better only numbers that keep you out of trouble as brass becomes unsettled after you keep reloading it. I prefer to stay away from the super tight necks and shoot a journeymen neck in BR rifles. Been there done that with super tight necks no advantage and can become like the Rocky Horror Picture Show when either a bad cleaning session or a change of bullets can shut down your loading operation.
I loaded enough H322 to be just into the neck of a new 220 Russian case. I use WSR primers not that I don't have 205M but I like the WSR mine are the silver ones and I have 12,000 left.
For fire forming I let the barrel seat the bullet. I want full jam and full power for fire firing. I like to see my primers with a good crater but not piercing. Not concerned with grouping sometimes good groups most times 2 shots in one hole and 3 in another. Better condition reading will put all the shots together later. In addition to the primer inspection I look for a sharp ridge where the body of the case transitions into shoulder. Takes a second fire forming to get this. After 2 shots if you have a rounded transition between case body and shoulder you have not sealed the case to the chamber and that black stuff on a fired case is blow-by. You can avoid this with correct fire-forming. At least load a bullet weight similar to what you are going to compete with a heavier bullet will be better. For the second fire-forming shots of each case in a PPC you need to up the powder as the shoulder angle has changed allowing more power capacity. Based on what my primers like after the first shot again I will throw H322 into the base of the neck. Unlike N133 that seems to have no limit of how much a PPC case will handle H322 has a spike where no man wants to go. This spike level comes up fast with H322 but it is my No 2 powder behind 133 that I travel with. There have been times that 133 couldn't handle the Range where 322 did better, I don't prefer one powder over the other but I always try 133 first.
All things went well the wind was where I like it brisk and coming from behind me most of the time. I even had time to shoot 3 shots from my Hall 22 PPC to get a decent sight-in. One last item and because this a rifle board I won't elaborate. I bought the Star Loader from Chuck. Set up now for 38 spl with a 45 die block set. Trying to set myself up for retirement someday.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR

 

[tootalloutdoors]

That was a really good post for me to read. Different numbers than mine but it gives me a good idea on what your doing and what you watch for. Thanks again Stephen...
tootalloutdoors