Dasher FF

[4xforfun]

My shiny new dasher will be done soon. My shiny new brass will be here sooner. What do you guys think about fireforming my brass with my other Dasher. Both are .272 neck, and pretty sure both of the reamers are from Dave Kiff. I am not sure if I will use bullets or the pistol powder/cow method. Always neck up to 25 and then back down just enough to squeeze the bolt shut.

 

[johara1]

With the new brass a .272 neck is too big, a .270 would be better for a no turn neck. The chamber length of 1.570 is too long for the new shorter brass,1.555-1.560 may be better. The COW method didn't work for me, the firing pin drove the case forward and the head space was .008 short. So you have to make a false shoulder again,all you is work harden the brass......jim

 

[4xforfun]

With the new brass a .272 neck is too big, a .270 would be better for a no turn neck. The chamber length of 1.570 is too long for the new shorter brass,1.555-1.560 may be better. The COW method didn't work for me, the firing pin drove the case forward and the head space was .008 short. So you have to make a false shoulder again,all you is work harden the brass......jim

I can't do anything about the .272 neck.....bbl has been chambered since last July. Same for the chamber length.

I make a false sholder....neck up to 25 and back down...there is no pushing back of the sholder...and if it did, having a bullet in the mix would change nothing. When FF w/o the bullet, I have found that the sholders on my new brass is exactly the same as my 5x fired brass. I measure 4 different spots on the sholder. The edges are sharp and crisp.

I actualy don't use COW, I just use a stiff load of HP-38 (that is all I had at the time) and a square of single ply asswipe.

 

[Phil]

AHHHHHHHHH.......................

The INFAMOUS single ply.............

 

[fdshuster]

As with johara, the pistol powder/cow method did not work for me either, but when fireforming Lapua 6BR to 6BRX. 7.5 grs. of Bullseye, cream of wheat to base of neck, tight cotton wad in neck. headspace was .014" short, shoulder/body junction was well rounded off, and the primer backed out a bit, using a hard jam, after opening neck dia. to 6.5 mm with an expanding mandrel. I'm getting excellent results just loading a normal 6BR load with .010" jam. Cases are fully formed with one firing. Headspace length with the first firing is 1.252", and 1.254" after the third firing. Have not lost a single case out of 60 to neck or shoulder splits.

 

[4xforfun]

I guess I am not looking to re-invent the wheel. I am not asking about the proper way to FF Dasher cases. Been there, done that....many, many times. I got no problems with my cases, weather I use bullets or not. I am just wondering if you guys think that there would or could be enough differances in chamber dimentions between the two bbls to "screw things up" so to speak.

I talk regularily to, in my opinion, the top dasher guy on the planet........he says he has used the same custom die for all of the dashers he has ever had, chamberd by different smiths, with different reamers, and has no problems. I am just looking at this from the opposite direction....not squeazing cases with a die, but expanding them with the chamber. Will different chambers, with different remers, chambered by different smiths make much difference in the finished product?

 

[duanepa]

What are you up to? Top level BR shooters form new brass for new barrels. Chucks, crows & PDs won't know the difference. I am a saver, I would FF in the old barrel to save the new one. You're sort of a slave to the die you have anyway: it is what it is, and so is the new chamber. My .02 DW

 

[4xforfun]

My biggest problem is that I am CHEAP....tightwad extrordenare.....I just hate the thought of waisting bullets and powder and bbl life for no other reason than to FF casses.....I live no where near prairy dog country.

I know, I know....with that problem I have no earthly buisnes owning a Dasher, or any wildcat or improved cases.

It's just that they are so flippin cute. The dasher, not the dog's.

As far as my "old" Dasher....I have had problems with sudden unexplained PSI spikes......and have wrecked brass while FF with 28.g of varget or RL 15 and 105 VLD/s. It just HATES pressure. My match load...when it is cool out....is 31.3 gr of RL 15. 31.1 when it is warmer. Anyone who spent any time at BRCENTRAL in the past might recall the "exploding gun" trilogy. My best FF cases came from using the HP-38 All the casses were the same...no PSI signs, and measured up with my best "match brass.

 

[wildchild]

If your CHEAP your in the wrong sport!! ;D ;D JK
Maybe when you get your new rifle see how it chambers your brass from the other rifle.
Id guess if a fired case fits easy the headspace is longer and this wont work.
Id try a fired case then check it if its tight then bump em back till it fits, then use the other rifle to fireform. JMO
BTW, I FF with a stiff jam, no issues YET.

 

[johara1]

Now tell me what your free bore is? That load seems very low to have pressure. Maybe cheap got you in trouble, I fire form with 30.8 gr. of Varget and a 115 DTAC. bullet,my load for 1K is 33gr. of RL-15 and a 115 DTAC. I know all barrels are different but it sounds like you have a very short throat.
I have three barrels that i can fire form in any one and i have a sizing die set up for each barrel. yes you can mix and match but reamer to reamer is the problem, but too fire form in one for the other is fine, as long as the fire form barrels chamber is the same or a little longer so you can set your head space for the other barrel.
I found that it's best to buy your own reamer,have it made to your specs. and your FF. barrel is always the same...... jim

 

[alf]

What do you guys think about fireforming my brass with my other Dasher.

Tod,

I'd fireform a few first from the slave barrel, measure base to datum line w/o the primer, set your FL sizer long (cause the body will grow) and sneak up on the perfect fit in the new chamber. You can then cross reference the two chambers with the fired brass from the slave barrel.

Or you could just try and chamber the fireformed brass, but I hate pounding on the bolt handle to get stuck brass out. BTDT.

I see no reason to not fireform in the older barrel. I full length size everytime, so I think it's a non issue.

Back to your Dasher from hell, was that one, by chance, faster than an 8 twist?

 

[alf]

Also,

You need to work up a load to fireform. You can't just pick a load outta your butt and have at it. If you're ending up short on headspace, there's not enough pressure, or the false shoulder's not correct.

This is a 22-250 Ackley I just got done fireforming. The only fast powder I had was 700X, but it worked fine. I started at 14 grains and went to 19 grains, with the ever popular ass wipe for a stopper. You can/will find enough pressure to show ejector marks, just back off from there to the case that shows the sharpest shoulder with the least powder. In this Ackley, I fireformed them all with 17 grains. I did a 22 Dasher a while back and ended up using 15 grains.

 

[jonbearman]

Alf do you neck size after firing your ackley or full length size partly to bump the shoulder? I am not trying to hijack your thead.

 

[alf]

I anneal and full length size every time.

It's my latest and greatest number one coyote gun right now, so smooth feeding's a priority.

 

[4xforfun]

Al,

I worked up a load with HP-38...I started in the teens, and ended up around 25 or 27 gr.....I don't have my notes handy, but it was a stout load, and increasing the load any further did not change the dimentions of the brass. It looks like 700x and HP 38 are almost identical, and I am 10 g hotter than you. On the other side , my match loads are 3 gr lighter than yours. It may be the fact that I don't use any media (ie COW)....just powder and A-wipe. My headspace ends up spot on with my "match brass", which has been hit pretty hard....a bunch of times. I measure with ALL of the gauges in the Hornday kit (.330, .350, .375, .400, and the .420) so I am measuring more than one spot on the sholder. I measure the brass decapped. The base to sholder lengths (headspace) were identical with my match brass with each of the gauges. The ovrerall case length was very similar and was very steady from piece to piece. VERY SHARP SHOLDERS. He set the headspace on the new chamber based off of the fired brass from my old dasher, so headspace should be close.


Jim,


As far as the old dasher troubles being caused by me being "financialy concervitive"...the only thing I cheaped out on during the build is the action...I used a POS REM 700 action instead of a BAT. It has a very long throat....I don't have the specks, but comparing them to lots of other match dashers loaded with 105 berger vld's...they are IDENTICAL. I am thinking I even did a side by side with Al at the IBS nats last fall.....TWINS. The bolt has been bushed, diff recoil lug ,ect..... all the tricks.

I guess if I try it, one of three things is going to happen.

1) it will be a perfect match.

2) The new chamber will be short, in which case I bump the sholders a bit and I will be golden.

3) worse case, the new chamber is longer, in which case I will need to neck up to .25 again and then back down to create another false sholder.....which meens I just wasted some time.

 

[alf]

Tod, even if it's a couple of thou longer, I probably wouldn't fret. You'll bump almost that much anyway. Plus, the body's typically grow some length in the die before you hit the "bump" stage.

I don't/didn't use any filler except butt wipe, but it's stuffed full. I can't believe you can run 10 grains more than my 22-250 to fireform. I've never done 6 Dashers this way, but my 22 Dasher was getting ejector marks at 17 grains.

I'd rather see you fireform several hundred cases with bullets in the new barrel, if you catch my drift...... ;D

 

[johara1]

I just started to break in my 5R barrel and I tried some of the new Blue box brass and the length going in was 1.555- 1.554 and blow length was 1.550 - 1.553,now i danced around the loading bench. Can't believe it I used a little heaver load and 115 DTAC. with a dry chamber and cleaned the cases with solvent. I fired and cleaned five times,if we get a break in the weather i hope to hit the range to try it again. ..jim

 

[queen_stick]

If you don't like fire forming (primers, bullets, powder, COW, single-ply ass-wipe, etc), you could always go with a hydraulic forming die from Hornady

I just picked one up for my dasher, but haven't tried it yet... It's an interesting device. I'll post some results when I do start using it.

Walt

 

[rcw3]

If you don't like fire forming (primers, bullets, powder, COW, single-ply ass-wipe, etc), you could always go with a hydraulic forming die from Hornady

I just picked one up for my dasher, but haven't tried it yet... It's an interesting device. I'll post some results when I do start using it.

Walt

Wet & messy - if you are o.k. with that, then you are good.
Robert

 

[queen_stick]

If you don't like fire forming (primers, bullets, powder, COW, single-ply ass-wipe, etc), you could always go with a hydraulic forming die from Hornady

I just picked one up for my dasher, but haven't tried it yet... It's an interesting device. I'll post some results when I do start using it.

Walt

Wet & messy - if you are o.k. with that, then you are good.
Robert

That's right... The dreaded compromise!)

I have an old press mounted in my garage, so I have an ideal place to "let the mess happen."

I can't say if I like it though, because I haven't tried it. I have a feeling I won't like having to dry the cases. I have an air compressor in the garage as well, so I can blow the cases out after forming.