Damn Fliers!

[Mr.Knowit all]

I am not the greatest shooter by all means but on one of my rifles I will put 2 or 3 in the same hole then catch a flier 3/4 to 1 inch off @ 100yds. Out of a 5 shot group I may get 2 or even 3 that are fliers!!

My barrel is a Rock and my action screws are tight, along with everything else. My SD is in single digits and neck tension feels consistent. The AICS says not to bed.

Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Are you using wind flags?

 

[Das Capitolin]

There are lots of reasons, but a few that come to mind are: stable position with skeletal support and bag rests or loaded bipod, trigger follow-through, breathing control, and consistent cheek weld.

 

[eric32]

Are the fliers in a consistent order?
Or do they happen at different shots within the group?

Have you tested different load characteristics to narrow down the causes? Such as more neck tension, different powder charges, or longer or shorter seathing depths.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

Far too many possibilities to even give you a good guess.

Start with simple things. Get someone else to shoot the rifle (to eliminate you as the problem). Try load tuning. Swap out the scope for a few groups.

I don't know your level of rifle building expertise, but there is a huge difference between "tight" and properly torqued for the fasteners on rifles.

 

[waldo1979]

Start removing variables:
- The rifle: get a Sinclair 3" foreend adapter, an appropriate rear bag and a quality bench rest. If your setup is good you'll have very little sympathetic input.

- The ammo: this is a hard one. Learning how to make really high end ammo just takes time. In a good setup the brass will the hardesr variable to track. Put aside or mark brass that results in a flyer and see if it results in a flyer after another reload.

- The shooter: practice on a small caliber or air gun. Shooting a precision .22LR (Anschutz or even a KIDD) or air gun does wonders for improving the fundamentals of shooting. Natural respiratory pause, follow-thru, etc. it's also far cheaper (remember ammo is the biggest cost).

- The elements: IMO this is the hardest aspect of shooting. For flags I recommend Rick Graham's flags:
http://www.brflags.com/

 

[LHSmith]

Not all rifles are designed to shoot dime size groups for 5 successive shots. If this is a sniper rifle and you hit the bull first shot, then I would think it has fulfilled it's intended design. Hitting it 3 times would be a bonus in my book.

 

[Easternncnative]

Scope parallax

 

[22BRGUY]

straight consistent trigger pull

 

[Mr.Knowit all]

Scope parallax

I was thinking that as well so I concentrate on that as much as possible even have other friends that can shoot well shoot it. Same problem ensues.
I use a rear shooting bag with a Atlas Bi-pod. I even put the Atlas up and used a large shooting bag.

I know there are many things that could be my fault- fallow through, cheek weld, etc... but why is it that I can shoot my 308 under .5 min. any day of the week and my Creedmore even smaller groups?? That's why I am loosing my mind with this rifle.

No I do not use wind flags bc I am only shooting 100 yds and wind is almost unregistered on my Kestrel.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Eddie Harren]

OK, You've told everybody what cartridge your other rifles are chambered for. What's this one chambered for?

 

[TAJ45]

I am not the greatest shooter by all means but on one of my rifles I will put 2 or 3 in the same hole then catch a flier 3/4 to 1 inch off @ 100yds. Out of a 5 shot group I may get 2 or even 3 that are fliers!!

My barrel is a Rock and my action screws are tight, along with everything else. My SD is in single digits and neck tension feels consistent. The AICS says not to bed.

Any advice would be helpful.
Thanks

Everything previously mentioned are valid criteria. I had the same thing going on with an HMR, CZ. Sinclair rest, flags, Burris scope. I found out the crown was very minutely knicked needed a loupe to see it.
Just one more possibility.
However, you don't mention if your fliers are relationally consistent to the "group". Always - high, wide or? Just brainstormin'.

 

[3081FTR]

If you take the targets and hold one over the other (even if you have to move the targets around to align - do the fliers overlap i.e. they are actually the same distance apart each time?

I've just resolved an issue at 100 yrds with fliers where there would always be a flier but the shots that were high or low would swap around, as in sometimes the shot out was low and other times it was high - but the overall group size was always the same. I interpreted this to be harmonics so I redid seating depth and bingo - problem gone.

 

[Gb300wm]

I've had this problem and it was attributed to neck tension. I started annealing and using bushing dies and the fliers went away, assuming all other things in this thread are taken care of.
I have seen the aics stocks do much better skim bedded too....

 

[noload]

I define a flyer as operator/equipment error.

 

[JimPag]

I was thinking that as well so I concentrate on that as much as possible even have other friends that can shoot well shoot it. Same problem ensues.
I use a rear shooting bag with a Atlas Bi-pod. I even put the Atlas up and used a large shooting bag.

I know there are many things that could be my fault- fallow through, cheek weld, etc... but why is it that I can shoot my 308 under .5 min. any day of the week and my Creedmore even smaller groups?? That's why I am loosing my mind with this rifle.

No I do not use wind flags bc I am only shooting 100 yds and wind is almost unregistered on my Kestrel.

Thanks for responding.

You need flags even at 100 yards, especially if you think there is no wind. There is always wind and I've seen more people drop points at 100 yards when the flags are not moving and the tails are laying down. That is not the time to pull the trigger.

 

[Patch700]

You need flags even at 100 yards.

I agree.. And here's why.

As an example lets say we are shooting a 6.5 bullet and it is a 139grn scenar traveling at 2825 fps (a decent enough "wind bucking load"). With a 5mph 90 degree crosswind there is over a quarter of an inch condition there , so without flags you can basically call that over half minute if you catch it wrong on both sides.

A kestrel sitting on your bench won't amount to a hill of beans 25+ yards downrange.

 

[JimPag]

I'd say if you can consistently put 3 in one hole at will on any



I agree.. And here's why.

As an example lets say we are shooting a 6.5 bullet and it is a 139grn scenar traveling at 2825 fps (a decent enough "wind bucking load"). With a 5mph 90 degree crosswind there is over a quarter of an inch condition there , so without flags you can basically call that over half minute if you catch it wrong on both sides.

BINGO!

 

[Dusty Stevens]

And its hard to see a 5mph change even with flags. Without its a roll of the dice, lots of denial thinking theres no conditions, and lots of tail chasing. Until you study flags and their affect on your group its hard to see that. Ive seen awful big groups shot when hundreds of flags are not even twitching

 

[LHSmith]

Heard this on this site from another member "Without flags, it's just "plinking". Well I found I was just "plinking" for 30 years before I learned to use flags and discovered how to shoot with repeatable accuracy. I don't even want to think of the ammo wasted and great guns traded off due to being clueless about wind.