Daily Bulletin: Shotgun VS Handgun for home defense
- Thread starter Tommie
- Start date
Its not about the actual response, its about the bad guys thinking there is one. Your objective is to get them out of your house and you out of danger, not get in a gunfight.
I rely on myself, not to wait a half an hour on guys that are trained for 6 yards. We took 300 State police down one time to see if they were suitable for Snipers and after the smoke cleared they were more of danger to themselves. Three were the max that were worth trying to train.... It isn't a perfect world, The Marine Corps taught me to adapt and overcome. Not to sit around with my thumb up my a$$ and wait...... jim
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
He's *not* saying to NOT rely on yourself. He's *not* saying to rely on the police. We all acknowledge no one is more qualified / entitled to defend your life than you.
But is has some *very* real negatives attached. We shouldn't romanticize it. We shouldn't Rambo fantisize, here. It'll be hell on earth for you and your family the next 5+ years of your life. Pulling the trigger is a last resort. It is better than being dead.
But not pulling the trigger and staying alive is by far the best option. Far and away.
SSL
Gold $$ Contributor
Yep. It averages 45 minutes for a squad to respond to a call out here. Our county is woefully understaffed.
Several years ago I was startled by a loud crash outside. I went out to see what had happened and found that a carload (5) of drunk illegals (absolutely not racist, proven fact) had jumped the ditch into my property, missed my power pole by a measured 8", jumped my drive, missed a massive elm by about a foot, mowed down a 7' pine, and broke through my 5' hedge on the way back to the road, where they came to a halt because they were "bridged" over the ditch. Once I made sure no one was injured, I pulled out my phone to call 911. Instantly I was surrounded by 5 men shouting "No call police, no call police!"
By now I had a 911 operator on the line and was explaining the situation. The group kept advancing toward me, blocking my path back to the house and shouting. I told them several times to get back, and the operator was starting to get concerned, asking me if I was OK. When two of them decided move in on me, I pulled my 1911 out of my belt from under my jacket and told them to back off or else. They did instantly and went back to the car. The operator was highly concerned by that point and asked if they were threatening me. I responded "Not anymore." Long pause, then the operator said "Are you armed?" When I responded "Yes", she said "I'm glad. Just be careful."
I retreated to the relative safety of my deck with 911 still talking to me to monitor the situation, and 45 minutes later a deputy pulled up. I had to smile because he was the brother of my son's best friend and had been out to my place to shoot several times. The motorists all started screaming at him that I had pulled a gun on them and wanted me arrested. He looked them over, kind of grinned and told them they were very lucky.
"If it had been me and you pulled this s##t," he told them, "I would have shot you already."
After he called for a van, all were taken into custody, booked for no licenses, insurance, drunk driving, destruction of private property and ultimately turned over to INS. Their complaints they tried to initiate through their court-appointed lawyer against me went nowhere with the 911 tape clearly demonstrating that they were the aggressors. Judge refused to hear the case.
Another good reason to get 911 on the line immediately!
I can only speak for my self ,but I don't mind if there is more than one bad guy breaking in !
An UZI,and for the record I never did like the way my wife decorated the living room !
Think about priory's, I can walk from my back door to the bedroom in 6 seconds and that isn't running... how fast can you dial a phone? and you are deverting your eyes from the line of force.... Think, you don't have time, plus the light on the phone while you dial it. You might as well put a flashing light that says here I am. If you have time yes dial the phone and get 911, if not do what you have to .... jim
Sounds exactly like me. I keep a loaded (decocked on safety) PT100 .40 with 12 rounds and a light beside my bed or under a pillow. Reasonably sure I won't set it off accidentally but it can be brought to action with one hand. Then there is a 930 auto 12 gauge sitting in the corner with 5 rounds in the mag (not to over compress the spring) and 6 on the stock in varying loads. If someone is in the house, I'd probably go for the pistol but outside, definitely the shotgun. I live 55 yards off the road and using Federal's 00 buck with flight control wad, it will group at about 14" at that distance. I also keep a set of electronic muffs there too.
Westhunder
Please excuse typos, sent from my iPhone.
Phone and pistol with 24 rounds and another mag, with light on it is beside the bed. Shtf..... dial 911 put the phone in your pocket ( this recording will avoid high priced attorney fees later) ((if there is time, state your name and address only, they won’t hang up))grab pistol. I know my house better than any one in this world, so should you.
Side note- most shootings happen inside what, 8’? You should own the distance of twice the length of your car and the longest shot in your house. “A” zone, every time. Only way to do this is train. If you are going to own a firearm, you need to be an expert on the platform, much less concealed carry. You have chosen to be a protector of the sheep. Want to know how you will preform under stress? Run two laps around your house and then make the same shots. Then do it one handed. Then do it weak handed.
Back to scenario-
Light is momentary, not a sound is made until you have an idea of where and what is going on. If it’s dark. Only illuminate light to navigate what is necessary( you shouldn’t have to do this) light gives away your location just like that pump shotgun you think is the “universal” you’re about to get shot. Not to mention it has at least a 18” barrel if it’s not one of those new “firearms” or registered short barrel shotguns. So if you can clear a house faster with it than a pistol, more power to you my friend.
Once threat or neighbors drunk kid is located, you will have time to make choice. Your eyes can completely scan a picture with amazing detail in .02 of a second. Just a quick glimpse, you can almost give every major detail of this image. There are many studies that show where pupil trackers are fixed to glasses and show how quickly your eyes can scan something. So now you are here, with a recorder, police enroute (5-45min), loaded pistol with 24 rounds, in a house that you know everything about, and are identifying what you need to do. If it’s Charlie from down the road, someone there to do harm or rob you blind, you can simply speak, “you have 1 second to stop or I’m going to stop you” calmly and clearly. Not screaming freeze! Get down! Over and over again. Or I’m going to blow your mf’ing head off. Because I promise you that won’t go over well in court.
We have all seen “cops” where they are screaming at the “perp”. They never do what they ask bc their heart rate is just as jacked as yours, or they are do belligerent that they don’t know which way is up. They don’t know what to do bc you/ they are screaming all these commands that aren’t clearly being stated.
So calmly, clearly, state yourself and your terms and let your eyes and brain do the thinking. If you need to take the shot, don’t hesitate, your life depends on it. You don’t want a couple things, a bad shoot, a bad recording, shooting a drunk kid trying to sneak back in, or a combination of the above.
Once all of this is done, you can pick up the phone and tell the operator you are armed and what you are wearing. Do what the police say when they get there, they haven’t heard the phone call.
Final thought, do you know how many steps it is to the living room from your bed? How long it takes you to get there? What about the back door? Kids room? Grandkids? Kitchen? Living room? Alarm only works if you arm it.
Not trying to change anyone’s mind, just some food for thought. Training is the best option. I enjoy training and learning and thinking about things that could happens bc chances are this exact thing won’t happen, but some version of it, and I need to be able to adapt on the fly to protect my life and my loved ones, and maybe the life of the person that just made some really bad decisions. This can only happen if I am well trained, aware of what’s going on, and able to make very quick decisions with great accuracy.
Side note- most shootings happen inside what, 8’? You should own the distance of twice the length of your car and the longest shot in your house. “A” zone, every time. Only way to do this is train. If you are going to own a firearm, you need to be an expert on the platform, much less concealed carry. You have chosen to be a protector of the sheep. Want to know how you will preform under stress? Run two laps around your house and then make the same shots. Then do it one handed. Then do it weak handed.
Back to scenario-
Light is momentary, not a sound is made until you have an idea of where and what is going on. If it’s dark. Only illuminate light to navigate what is necessary( you shouldn’t have to do this) light gives away your location just like that pump shotgun you think is the “universal” you’re about to get shot. Not to mention it has at least a 18” barrel if it’s not one of those new “firearms” or registered short barrel shotguns. So if you can clear a house faster with it than a pistol, more power to you my friend.
Once threat or neighbors drunk kid is located, you will have time to make choice. Your eyes can completely scan a picture with amazing detail in .02 of a second. Just a quick glimpse, you can almost give every major detail of this image. There are many studies that show where pupil trackers are fixed to glasses and show how quickly your eyes can scan something. So now you are here, with a recorder, police enroute (5-45min), loaded pistol with 24 rounds, in a house that you know everything about, and are identifying what you need to do. If it’s Charlie from down the road, someone there to do harm or rob you blind, you can simply speak, “you have 1 second to stop or I’m going to stop you” calmly and clearly. Not screaming freeze! Get down! Over and over again. Or I’m going to blow your mf’ing head off. Because I promise you that won’t go over well in court.
We have all seen “cops” where they are screaming at the “perp”. They never do what they ask bc their heart rate is just as jacked as yours, or they are do belligerent that they don’t know which way is up. They don’t know what to do bc you/ they are screaming all these commands that aren’t clearly being stated.
So calmly, clearly, state yourself and your terms and let your eyes and brain do the thinking. If you need to take the shot, don’t hesitate, your life depends on it. You don’t want a couple things, a bad shoot, a bad recording, shooting a drunk kid trying to sneak back in, or a combination of the above.
Once all of this is done, you can pick up the phone and tell the operator you are armed and what you are wearing. Do what the police say when they get there, they haven’t heard the phone call.
Final thought, do you know how many steps it is to the living room from your bed? How long it takes you to get there? What about the back door? Kids room? Grandkids? Kitchen? Living room? Alarm only works if you arm it.
Not trying to change anyone’s mind, just some food for thought. Training is the best option. I enjoy training and learning and thinking about things that could happens bc chances are this exact thing won’t happen, but some version of it, and I need to be able to adapt on the fly to protect my life and my loved ones, and maybe the life of the person that just made some really bad decisions. This can only happen if I am well trained, aware of what’s going on, and able to make very quick decisions with great accuracy.
Rube Shooter
Gold $$ Contributor
Lots of good ideas here. When it comes down to that time you best know how to use whatever you have, both in your hands and whats between your ears.
Back blast area is clear!!!
Firing..
Hamburger!!!!
Sorry, I use to instruct deployment of said device.
@garandman,
I agree with you that no sane person WANTS to kill another human being.
In my attempt to keep my original post short, I neglected to mention that you give a LOUD verbal warning to the intruder if possible. "Get out of my house, I have a gun and I have called 911".
This is a very crucial part of home defense planning, thanks for bringing that point to light.
Lloyd
garandman
Bolt Gun Bodacious
Indeed. WHEN you end up in court for using deadly force, youll want 2b able to truthfully say this.
Sneaking around in the dark and then shooting someone... even ilegally in your home ... *will* be twisted around by prisecutors / civil attorneys in ways to demonize you and all gun ownwrs.
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https://www.usacarry.com/homeowner-4-attackers-ar-15/
Ar15 is about the most effective home defense weapon you can get. If the guy in this article had a pistol or shot gun he’d be dead.
Easiest to put rounds on target and you have a much better chance of defending yourself against multiple attackers than if you’re using a lower capacity tool.
Ar15 is about the most effective home defense weapon you can get. If the guy in this article had a pistol or shot gun he’d be dead.
Easiest to put rounds on target and you have a much better chance of defending yourself against multiple attackers than if you’re using a lower capacity tool.
As to telling the "bad guys" the cops are on the way....don't underestimate the fact that if you know it takes 45 minutes for a response in your area the bad guys just might know it too. Might be worth a try to get them out faster though.
As far as having a "long gun" taken away from me.....I have an 870 with a bayonet and an 18" barrel, the safety is off and my finger is on the trigger and the slack is taken up. The "bad guy" is welcome to try, in fact, I'd like for him to. And no, they aren't going to hear me rack it for effect...it's already chambered, what they do hear "for effect" wont require any further decision on their part.
They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...I had two break-ins, one was 16 years ago, the other 10. Put up the cameras and an alarm system and haven't had trouble since. I don't live in a high crime area, but if they think you have something they will find you.
As far as having a "long gun" taken away from me.....I have an 870 with a bayonet and an 18" barrel, the safety is off and my finger is on the trigger and the slack is taken up. The "bad guy" is welcome to try, in fact, I'd like for him to. And no, they aren't going to hear me rack it for effect...it's already chambered, what they do hear "for effect" wont require any further decision on their part.
They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...I had two break-ins, one was 16 years ago, the other 10. Put up the cameras and an alarm system and haven't had trouble since. I don't live in a high crime area, but if they think you have something they will find you.
You never know what you will do, unless you trained enough to act on reflex, and maybe not even then because you have to process what is confronting you. You also can't determine whether adrenaline will help you or make you act before you access. I don't train, but that's no excuse, I don't have time or the money.
But once, in my late 20's, I had spinal meningitis. This was before cell phones. I lived in a trailer and didn't know what was making me hurt so bad I prayed to die. The fever took away my ability to think to call for help. About 2am I heard the front door of my trailer open and saw a cigarette lighter pop on a few seconds. The bed in the back bedroom faced the kitchen area of the trailer and you could sit up in bed and see all the way through the small kitchen. What happened next is not rational, but it is the truth.
So, I picked up my 1911, which was cocked and locked and proceeded down the hall in the dark - naked. Who had time to dress? But I got violently ill and detoured into the bathroom to puke. As I went I didn't hear anything, but I could see a form sitting in a chair. I remember wondering what to do and thinking that someone could have a knife and be waiting for me to close. So I took aim and yelled something at him, but got no response. So I crept forward until I could see the guy was asleep and my yelling wasn't getting a reaction, so I grabbed his collar and threw him at the front door, but he ricocheted into the kitchen and broke my kitchen table. Finally I shut the door behind me, locked it, and went back to bed. Never thought about the police or anything.
The next afternoon, a friend came by and got me some help and I was in the hospital that evening. After I got back home a couple of weeks later, someone was hammering on my door at 2am. Turns out it was the same guy. He would go get plastered, ask his friends to give him a ride home, and they would drop him off at the wrong trailer park.
He never knew he was literally 3.5 lbs from death, but I have always remembered that I was also 3.5 lbs from something that would have at a minimum devastated my life forever.
But once, in my late 20's, I had spinal meningitis. This was before cell phones. I lived in a trailer and didn't know what was making me hurt so bad I prayed to die. The fever took away my ability to think to call for help. About 2am I heard the front door of my trailer open and saw a cigarette lighter pop on a few seconds. The bed in the back bedroom faced the kitchen area of the trailer and you could sit up in bed and see all the way through the small kitchen. What happened next is not rational, but it is the truth.
So, I picked up my 1911, which was cocked and locked and proceeded down the hall in the dark - naked. Who had time to dress? But I got violently ill and detoured into the bathroom to puke. As I went I didn't hear anything, but I could see a form sitting in a chair. I remember wondering what to do and thinking that someone could have a knife and be waiting for me to close. So I took aim and yelled something at him, but got no response. So I crept forward until I could see the guy was asleep and my yelling wasn't getting a reaction, so I grabbed his collar and threw him at the front door, but he ricocheted into the kitchen and broke my kitchen table. Finally I shut the door behind me, locked it, and went back to bed. Never thought about the police or anything.
The next afternoon, a friend came by and got me some help and I was in the hospital that evening. After I got back home a couple of weeks later, someone was hammering on my door at 2am. Turns out it was the same guy. He would go get plastered, ask his friends to give him a ride home, and they would drop him off at the wrong trailer park.
He never knew he was literally 3.5 lbs from death, but I have always remembered that I was also 3.5 lbs from something that would have at a minimum devastated my life forever.
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