Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
You are not shooting UBR either, the winner of the Nationals last year shot coated bullets.
Curious if anyones still shooting Moly bullets?
- Thread starter rcol317
- Start date
You are not shooting UBR either, the winner of the Nationals last year shot coated bullets.
Yeah, @Dusty Stevens means REAL BR.........
..........just kiddin'.......
I shot moly coated bullets years ago. I found that the moly residue got so thick that I could not get a properly sized patch thru the barrel. The rifle was a Rem 700 vssf in .308. I used progressively larger jags and JBs bore paste to clean it out. It took a lot of work to get the moly out. Then, to make matters worse, accuracy went south firing un-coated bullets. Bore scope inspection showed pitting in the throat. After a little research, I found out the pitting under the moly residue was experienced by other shooters as well. No more moly for me. The rifle went to the back of the safe and eventually became the 6.5x47L I have now.
I used Berger moly coated bullets. I shot about 300-400 coated bullets. To be fair, the barrel may have had issues from the start. I was a rifle reloading "newby" at that time and probably missed some tell tale signs.
PopCharlie
I used Berger moly coated bullets. I shot about 300-400 coated bullets. To be fair, the barrel may have had issues from the start. I was a rifle reloading "newby" at that time and probably missed some tell tale signs.
PopCharlie
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
I know I know, come try it, you might just like it.
Not stating anything as fact, just my experience.
I use danzac coated bullets. I don't see any down sides to it. It doesn't make the gun shoot better or worse..but I don't need to clean during a whole two yardage agg. I've been fortunate enough to win a few matches along the way. Been using it for at least 10 years now and I don't plan to stop using it. Again, I just don't see a down side and I can shoot more and clean less. I've won 3 matches, that I can remember, with around 400 rounds on the bbl without cleaning. They always clean up like they would if I had 20 rounds on them.
This stuff about it not being "real BR" is just...stuff.
I use danzac coated bullets. I don't see any down sides to it. It doesn't make the gun shoot better or worse..but I don't need to clean during a whole two yardage agg. I've been fortunate enough to win a few matches along the way. Been using it for at least 10 years now and I don't plan to stop using it. Again, I just don't see a down side and I can shoot more and clean less. I've won 3 matches, that I can remember, with around 400 rounds on the bbl without cleaning. They always clean up like they would if I had 20 rounds on them.
This stuff about it not being "real BR" is just...stuff.
Evening
I am surprised you pressure trace results were 1 for 1 velocity to pressure. That differs from my experience, or testing ( article attached) and Norma's work long ago.
If i recall correctly pressure decreased by 5% while velocity decreased by 3%.
excerpt form the article
Performance-wise, moly has a lot of benefits. A lot. The first and most: take two bullets, one coated and one bare, put the same load behind them, then shoot and chronograph. The coated bullet goes slower. How is that a help? The reason it goes slower is because moly drops chamber pressure (into and through the bore easier). And! That velocity loss (at least 50 fps, usually more) is not, proportionately, nearly as much as the accompanying drop in pressure (usually ballpark 4000+ psi). (These figures vary with the cartridge, but all show similar universal influence.) So. The moly-load can be increased beyond previous “maximum” velocity: the idea is to take the coated load up to normal chamber pressure. It works! It’s common to need at the least 1+ grain more propellant to level the coated load with the original bare-bullet load.
One of the upsides is you could run higher speed at the same pressure (with the potential of hitting the next node); down side it take more powder and some situations you don't have more powder room. thinking F /TR and 308 win case capacity.
Accuracy
It is not any more accurate then naked bullets it is the same...not less the same. doing more work for similar results... pass.
Other benefits.
- neck seating molying bullets are bullets which have a coating assisting with neck seating and tensions. instead of dipping case necks in powdered graphite
- alignment it seems to help with bullet alignment during seating and entering the chamber it takes less effort to align with moly vs naked.
- bullet integrity i have seen reports of bullets not getting as grooved to the same extent as naked bullets. this could help in avoiding bullet blow ups and in theory the bullet should be more BC consistent with less metal distortion.
The picture was taken by world class BR shooter recovering 68gn flat based bullets after shooting them into a snow bank. Pictured was grabbed from Benchrest central. bullet on the right is uncoated
here is the link http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?98382-Nitride-Boron-Bullet-Coatings&highlight=moly
Cleaning less frequently
inconclusive the majority of shooters say that is one of the key points of using moly. I can not confirm; I will clean then shoot several rounds before a match shoot the entire match 200+ rds and then clean. I know several competitors who do the exact same with naked bullets. neither appear to show a drop of in accuracy. I don't shoot for group so i can't confirm if it is detrimental compared to score shooting.
I continue to moly as i believe it provides benefits.
Thanks
Trevor
P.S.
Wet moly method has cut down the amt of time to moly by 75%. dry moly method would usually take 4hrs to coat, using the wet moly method i tumble for 1hr.
i do use the lapua blue case holders and but my bullets in each hole tip down on a piece of paper towel to make sure i get the moly slurry out of the nose.
Actually, it was just too good of an opportunity to pass up. Looks like there was a bite........
I have been shooting moly coated bullets at prairie dogs for 25+ years now. Don't see a good reason not to.You are not shooting UBR either, the winner of the Nationals last year shot coated bullets.
My 2 least desirable things to do are trimming brass and stop shooting in a prairie dog town to clean a barrel.
If you dry your bullets when they come out of the Tumblr with a heat gun the evaporating water will actually produce a bubble and it clears out the pointEvening
I am surprised you pressure trace results were 1 for 1 velocity to pressure. That differs from my experience, or testing ( article attached) and Norma's work long ago.
If i recall correctly pressure decreased by 5% while velocity decreased by 3%.
excerpt form the article
Performance-wise, moly has a lot of benefits. A lot. The first and most: take two bullets, one coated and one bare, put the same load behind them, then shoot and chronograph. The coated bullet goes slower. How is that a help? The reason it goes slower is because moly drops chamber pressure (into and through the bore easier). And! That velocity loss (at least 50 fps, usually more) is not, proportionately, nearly as much as the accompanying drop in pressure (usually ballpark 4000+ psi). (These figures vary with the cartridge, but all show similar universal influence.) So. The moly-load can be increased beyond previous “maximum” velocity: the idea is to take the coated load up to normal chamber pressure. It works! It’s common to need at the least 1+ grain more propellant to level the coated load with the original bare-bullet load.
One of the upsides is you could run higher speed at the same pressure (with the potential of hitting the next node); down side it take more powder and some situations you don't have more powder room. thinking F /TR and 308 win case capacity.
Accuracy
It is not any more accurate then naked bullets it is the same...not less the same. doing more work for similar results... pass.
Other benefits.
- neck seating molying bullets are bullets which have a coating assisting with neck seating and tensions. instead of dipping case necks in powdered graphite
- alignment it seems to help with bullet alignment during seating and entering the chamber it takes less effort to align with moly vs naked.
- bullet integrity i have seen reports of bullets not getting as grooved to the same extent as naked bullets. this could help in avoiding bullet blow ups and in theory the bullet should be more BC consistent with less metal distortion.
The picture was taken by world class BR shooter recovering 68gn flat based bullets after shooting them into a snow bank. Pictured was grabbed from Benchrest central. bullet on the right is uncoated
here is the link http://benchrest.com/showthread.php?98382-Nitride-Boron-Bullet-Coatings&highlight=moly
Cleaning less frequently
inconclusive the majority of shooters say that is one of the key points of using moly. I can not confirm; I will clean then shoot several rounds before a match shoot the entire match 200+ rds and then clean. I know several competitors who do the exact same with naked bullets. neither appear to show a drop of in accuracy. I don't shoot for group so i can't confirm if it is detrimental compared to score shooting.
I continue to moly as i believe it provides benefits.
Thanks
Trevor
P.S.
Wet moly method has cut down the amt of time to moly by 75%. dry moly method would usually take 4hrs to coat, using the wet moly method i tumble for 1hr.
i do use the lapua blue case holders and but my bullets in each hole tip down on a piece of paper towel to make sure i get the moly slurry out of the nose.
bowfisher
Silver $$ Contributor
I use Moly, I have been applying it wet for over a decade now. I wouldn't bother using it dry...not even close to the same end result. After my bullets are done, I don't hardly get any residue on my fingers loading ammo, it actually embeds in the jacket materiel, doesn't just sit on top like a dry rub.
One of the main reasons I use it , prolonging ammo shelf life. If I overload for a PD trip and don't shoot all the ammo, the moly bullets will be right in tune the next year. Not so with naked bullets. The gaulding that occurs between the case and bullet changes neck tension considerably. I would have to go back and re-seat the naked bullets a couple thou to break the bond so they would hold a decent group. Been there, done that, PITA.....Naked bullets in loaded ammo have a very limited shelf life, IME. Properly molyed bullets, done using the wet application, last MUCH longer.
Everything from my 17HK on up to my 5/35 SMc run moly bullets. Haven't had to change out any barrels yet, and the round count is getting quite high on some of my varmint rifles. Copper fouling isn't even and issue anymore, just have to get the burnt powder out and keep shooting. Granted, I'm a varminter and not a BR shooter.
OP, I have a 20 SCC also, just got it running this year.
One of the main reasons I use it , prolonging ammo shelf life. If I overload for a PD trip and don't shoot all the ammo, the moly bullets will be right in tune the next year. Not so with naked bullets. The gaulding that occurs between the case and bullet changes neck tension considerably. I would have to go back and re-seat the naked bullets a couple thou to break the bond so they would hold a decent group. Been there, done that, PITA.....Naked bullets in loaded ammo have a very limited shelf life, IME. Properly molyed bullets, done using the wet application, last MUCH longer.
Everything from my 17HK on up to my 5/35 SMc run moly bullets. Haven't had to change out any barrels yet, and the round count is getting quite high on some of my varmint rifles. Copper fouling isn't even and issue anymore, just have to get the burnt powder out and keep shooting. Granted, I'm a varminter and not a BR shooter.
OP, I have a 20 SCC also, just got it running this year.
I think it's time to say this again. Virtually ALL methods and techniques work well when they are consistent and thoughtful.
When we go through that process of developing our techniques by being thoughtful and consistent, and get good results; we defend that technique when some else pans it. The truth is many different ways work well and the key is to find what works best for ourselves.
Also, ALL shooting disciplines require skill and practice. One does not reflect an overall higher level of skill than another, they are just different in what k=skills are most important.
When we go through that process of developing our techniques by being thoughtful and consistent, and get good results; we defend that technique when some else pans it. The truth is many different ways work well and the key is to find what works best for ourselves.
Also, ALL shooting disciplines require skill and practice. One does not reflect an overall higher level of skill than another, they are just different in what k=skills are most important.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I have fired a minimum of 45,000 to 50,000 moly bullets over the past 20 or so years plus maybe a third that many with other coatings (mostly HBN). I have come to enjoy the benefits of moly and have come to the conclusion in my own experience that moly has its best place in high volume shooting. To me - it is the only way to go in high-volume varmint rigs such as AR's in .20 Practical, .204 Ruger, .223 and .22 Nosler, Valkyrie, etc.. I also feel shooting them in bench guns has lots of merit for the same reasons (uniform bullet release, reduced fouling and coppering) though shot consistency from beginning with a clean barrel and up to the time needing cleaning can be a little trickier and may require fouling shots to the point there are diminishing returns on some barrels. In essence - the extra cleaning and wear may prove easier to deal with than having to shoot a number of rounds after cleaning until shot consistency is optimized. Getting into guns used solely for hunting where few shots are taken each trip - I'd avoid using it at all. It is just far easier getting a cold first shot to hit the same place without needing to moly up the tube and trying to get the same results on that first cold shot. In the barrels where I have used moly from just after break-in to the day the barrel was replaced resulted in none of the pitting or other problems run into by other readers. I think that moly (definitely HBN) are hygroscopic and when the rifle is stored in a humid or damp environment with a film in the barrel - it is going to be a problem. My rifles are always cleaned before storage and I always work my way out in a squirrel field so if it takes the first 20 shots to "molly up" the barrel, it matters little. The difference is not going to cause a miss within 2500 yards. Then I work my way out. Many years ago - I ran moly in almost everything. Now - only my high-volume varmint rigs and bench guns.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I typed faster than I was thinking above. I no longer load .20 Practical with moly as too many problems in preventing minor bullet slippage in the necks when rounds were chambering. I refuse to crimp - and no amount of neck tension on those small bullets with moly applied would stop the slippage completely. No such problem in .223 and larger diameter bullets. I do moly in my .20 cal bolt gun.
group therapy
Gold $$ Contributor
Lately I seem to:
Chamber a 6.5-06 and a 7mmRM every September and a couple other rifles, like 280AI or 25-06.
To fight Copper fouling:
1) I buy premium lapped barrels
2) I bore coat the new barrels.
3) I moly coat the bullets.
4) I keep the velocity below 3400 fps
5) If there is fouling, I clean with Witch's Brew [like combining Kroil and Flitz].
6) I sight in to 500 yards.
7) I shoot some deer and antelope.
8) I put the now "used" rifles in storage.
Chamber a 6.5-06 and a 7mmRM every September and a couple other rifles, like 280AI or 25-06.
To fight Copper fouling:
1) I buy premium lapped barrels
2) I bore coat the new barrels.
3) I moly coat the bullets.
4) I keep the velocity below 3400 fps
5) If there is fouling, I clean with Witch's Brew [like combining Kroil and Flitz].
6) I sight in to 500 yards.
7) I shoot some deer and antelope.
8) I put the now "used" rifles in storage.
HBN has surpassed Moly among many of my shooting friends. Seems to clean easier, or get rid of altogether, than Moly according to them. Since I never shoot more than a couple hundred rounds per rifle per month, I've settled on naked bullets. An old BR shooting friend of mine who was a big Moly fan has since quit using coatings. He said he gave it up since he's shooting less rounds per sitting than he used to. He did say that if he was shooting high round counts these days, he'd give the HBN a try because Moly was a bit messy and could make it tough to "recondition" a barrel.
If I start shooting more, I'm going to try the HBN simply because I see fewer downsides than Moly. I've had great results with naked bullets and, for the most part, better than expected barrel life. Barrel cleaning has been easy as well. Of course, I'm shooting typical tactical rifles and .2's or .3's work for me. Several hundred rounds per month, trying for .0's and changing barrels often, might make me change my approach. JMHO
If I start shooting more, I'm going to try the HBN simply because I see fewer downsides than Moly. I've had great results with naked bullets and, for the most part, better than expected barrel life. Barrel cleaning has been easy as well. Of course, I'm shooting typical tactical rifles and .2's or .3's work for me. Several hundred rounds per month, trying for .0's and changing barrels often, might make me change my approach. JMHO
coldboreshot
Silver $$ Contributor
Had a handed down Savage 6br barrel that only felt Sierra 107 moly's. By the time I handed it off to someone else, 5000+ rounds and it is still going.
I use moly on 3 rifles, 2 hyper velocities, 3,900 FPS and 1 standard velocity heart caliber, 3,200 FPS. All positive results, moly is like old style hair cream, a little dab will do you.
Much longer accurate shot strings, with hyper velocities, before moly 20 rounds, after moly I shot well over 50 with no issues and I just cleaned anyway.
Heavy caliber about 15 rounds before moly, I never shot enough with moly to see any issue.
Any difference in powder charge was no more then I'd see from lot to lot to get the same velocity.
The 6MM is getting much better barrel life than the first barrel and no moly.
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