Curious about Re 26

[rebel]

I have a friend who really wants me to try Re26 in my 260 AI. He has tried it for 300 WM and now in 6.5 Creedmoor. I know all about the velocity gains and low ES's some have seen. What are are some of things you guys have seen using this powder, both good and bad? I've read a bit searching the forum for 260 AI info but any real world experiences would be appreciated.
I currently use Re 19 and consistently shoot in the mid to high 2's with it at about 2880 fps with a 143 ELDX.
Thanks in advance.

 

[STOMP442]

I loaded some in my 260AI and while I experienced exceptional accuracy I would develop extreme pressure spikes as the barrel heats up and if the outside temp is over 80 degrees pressures go way up as well. I could get well over 3000fps with 140s but if I shot more than 5 rounds out of it it would start blowing primers. I even backed it off to 2900fps and had the same problems. I've used it in a couple creedmoors as well and experienced the same problems. I'm not sure where you live but if its anywhere with hot summers I would pass on this powder.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/260-ackley-r-26-results.3938614/#post-37098767

 

[rebel]

I loaded some in my 260AI and while I experienced exceptional accuracy I would develop extreme pressure spikes as the barrel heats up and if the outside temp is over 80 degrees pressures go way up as well. I could get well over 3000fps with 140s but if I shot more than 5 rounds out of it it would start blowing primers. I even backed it off to 2900fps and had the same problems. I've used it in a couple creedmoors as well and experienced the same problems. I'm not sure where you live but if its anywhere with hot summers I would pass on this powder.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/260-ackley-r-26-results.3938614/#post-37098767

Yep, NC summers tend to suck. Thanks a lot, good to know.

 

[walker2713]

Just FYI, the longrangehunting.com forum has had a huge ongoing discussion of RL26....might want to check it out. I've used it in my 6.5CM and .243 Win, accuracy and velocity has been good but not "over the moon."

With the 6.5 I have to use Hornady brass, as Lapua and Peterson have more limited capacity.

 

[rebel]

That's where my buddy got his info. He is building a 7mm SSM and read how great 26 was for other things. Personally, I like speed, but accuracy always trumps it.

 

[Bc'z]

I've used it in 06' but case capacity is limited,
Max charge is supposed to be 63.8, 62gr really has a good crunch to it.
I do shoot it in my 6.5 47 gr with 143's Agian very full case.
So really compressed loads would be the down side.
Good side is velocity and consistency.
Haven't noticed temp issues shooting in our southern Oregon heat high 90's, low 100's with a load that was developed in late winter early spring.
Lastly I believe the recoil isn't as sharp as other powders.
In process of working with Rl16 great velocities and groups in the 6five, might be wort looking into.

 

[1shot]

Had nothing but great numbers in both speed, accuracy and ES in my 284 Shehane during develpment. Took it to 1K to test under match conditions and midway through a 20 shot string the pressures started going up, along with the impacts. It's probably the cats meow for hunting, but it didn't pass the acid test for my application.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[rebel]

Yes, all of your comments confirm what I expected. My buddy experienced some of this the other day over a cheap chronograph and I told him we would confirm it over the Labradar this weekend. Appreciate everyone's input!

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I think RL26 is a little temp sensitive, but not nearly as temp sensitive as RL19 or RL22.

All Alliant powders will give better speeds when matched with other powders in a respective burn rate. As far as accuracy, there are way too many factors that go into that equation to say a certain "powder" will get you there. I use RL26 in a 6.5 Remington Magnum with 140gr Bergers and accuracy is phenomenal. But I couldn't find the accuracy with it in another rifle with the same chamber or other larger caliber rifles. The speeds were always excellent across the board of various rifles I used RL26 in, but I was only able to find the best accuracy with it in one rifle.

Just gotta try it to find out if your rifle will like the powder

 

[JLT]

I agree completely with Ledd Slinger's observations and comments. RL-26 is indeed sensitive to temperature changes, but not nearly as sensitive as many other powders. Further, the changes in velocity and, therefore, pressure are reasonably predictable. I developed RL-26 loads in a number of rifles while living in upstate NY where summer temperatures rarely top 85*. I'm now living in East Texas where 95* plus is the rule during the summer and I've had no problems re-tuning most of the loads (haven't had a chance to work on all of them yet). Never blown a primer with RL-26, either.

Perhaps much of the problem is rooted in the lure of spectacular velocities possible with this powder. I'll admit to fighting the temptation to go as fast as possible with this powder in some applications. If one chooses to play at the ragged edge, then any change, no matter how small under different circumstances, can produce significantly different outcomes.

Can you get 3,100 out of a 140 in a .260 AI? Yep. Will it be hard on brass? You bet. Really hard if your 140 of choice has a comparatively long bearing surface. Could things get exciting with such a load and a 10* increase in ambient temperature? A mallet might be needed to open the bolt. The same can be said for a long list of powders. There's only so much benefit to be had with an elongated pressure curve.

I've found RL-26 to be a very useful powder with some really impressive properties, but it is not exempt from the application of the very same prudent processes we associate with any other double-base powder.

 

[kevwil]

I'm also curious what people's experiences are with this powder. I worked up some loads in my 6x47L and got some fascinating but scary results. Now I too am fighting the temptation of spectacular velocities with RL26.

This is the 115 DTAC RBT through a 25" 3-groove 1:7" twist barrel.


I later verified the LabRadar readings with the same loads over a Magnetospeed. The lower velocity load with the higher ES/SD had a better grouping, but the higher velocity load had better ES/SD numbers. I'm not inclined to chase the SD at the risk of even higher pressures, given how the lower speed grouped well and felt better when shooting it.

I see absolutely zero pressure signs on the Lapua brass, yet the speeds seem insanely high for such a heavy bullet. I haven't loaded more because it seems too good to be true, but the temptation is strong.

 

[JLT]

I'm also curious what people's experiences are with this powder. I worked up some loads in my 6x47L and got some fascinating but scary results. Now I too am fighting the temptation of spectacular velocities with RL26.

This is the 115 DTAC RBT through a 25" 3-groove 1:7" twist barrel.
View attachment 1062358 View attachment 1062359 View attachment 1062360 View attachment 1062361

I later verified the LabRadar readings with the same loads over a Magnetospeed. The lower velocity load with the higher ES/SD had a better grouping, but the higher velocity load had better ES/SD numbers. I'm not inclined to chase the SD at the risk of even higher pressures, given how the lower speed grouped well and felt better when shooting it.

I see absolutely zero pressure signs on the Lapua brass, yet the speeds seem insanely high for such a heavy bullet. I haven't loaded more because it seems too good to be true, but the temptation is strong.

I like your characterization - 'insanely high' speeds is right on the money. I stopped in the mid-3,300 fps range when doing a work up in my .243 AI, not because I ran into pressure but because I got the repeatable accuracy I was looking for. No idea where the ceiling is in the .243 AI with the 105s and RL-26. Man, it can do amazing stuff with heavy-for-caliber bullets.

BTW, a standard deviation for a population of 3 doesn't mean much and reliance on the comparative numbers is not recommended. You might find that the slower charge will deliver better stats for a string of 10 or, better yet, 20 shots.

 

[rebel]

Thanks Led and JLT, excellent observations. It's funny, my buddy told this to me like it was some big secret. I told him the guys on AS starting playing with it when it came out. Interestingly enough, when I first got my rifle some factory 260 ammo came with it along with 20 pieces of brass. All Remington. After 3 firngs from forming the pockets were shot with a 143 and a hefty load of 19. I bought Lapua brass and backed it off.
I warned him that this wasn't a miracle powder, has to be a payoff somewhere. In NC the summers are hot and humid and early fall of late has turned to late summer.

 

[kevwil]

I worked up 10 more rounds with a slightly different bullet jump (0.003") and a tenth less powder, down to 43.0. It read 3153 fps average, 20.81 e.s. and 5.89 s.d.

I had 15 rounds in a different box I thought I'd try. Nosler 105gr RDF over 39.8gr RL16 with 0.055" jump. This load previously had run 3107 fps with 17 e.s. and 6.3 s.d. I've repeatedly hit targets at a mile with this load, so I think it's a good one for my barrel. This time, the 15 round group of RDF bullets over RL16 read 3185 fps, 29.3 e.s. and 6.23 s.d.

I'm now completely baffled. It's almost like the RL26 carbon residue made the 105RDF/RL16 load go almost 80 fps faster. There could be environmental differences between the old measurement and this one, but 80 fps?

 

[JLT]

I worked up 10 more rounds with a slightly different bullet jump (0.003") and a tenth less powder, down to 43.0. It read 3153 fps average, 20.81 e.s. and 5.89 s.d.

I had 15 rounds in a different box I thought I'd try. Nosler 105gr RDF over 39.8gr RL16 with 0.055" jump. This load previously had run 3107 fps with 17 e.s. and 6.3 s.d. I've repeatedly hit targets at a mile with this load, so I think it's a good one for my barrel. This time, the 15 round group of RDF bullets over RL16 read 3185 fps, 29.3 e.s. and 6.23 s.d.

I'm now completely baffled. It's almost like the RL26 carbon residue made the 105RDF/RL16 load go almost 80 fps faster. There could be environmental differences between the old measurement and this one, but 80 fps?

Interesting observation. How many rounds have you put down the barrel between the original velocity observation and the current one?

 

[kevwil]

Interesting observation. How many rounds have you put down the barrel between the original velocity observation and the current one?

Probably 100-150. I've got about 300 on the barrel so far.

 

[JLT]

Probably 100-150. I've got about 300 on the barrel so far.

The difference in velocity may just be your barrel 'settling in'. Not unusual for velocities to increase a bit, all other things being equal, over the first couple of hundred rounds.

I'll clock a few in similar fashion next time I'm working with RL-26 and another powder at the same time. I'm curious . . .

 

[284winner]

Had nothing but great numbers in both speed, accuracy and ES in my 284 Shehane during develpment. Took it to 1K to test under match conditions and midway through a 20 shot string the pressures started going up, along with the impacts. It's probably the cats meow for hunting, but it didn't pass the acid test for my application.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

What kind of speed were you getting and what bullets ?

 

[1shot]

2,910 with 183 SMK.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd