I guess Grant had his BS straight but just a little early! What a mess! USA had good enough shooters. The head coach must have been the key to such a poor showing. The team captains main job is to put the team in the best possible position to win. Incompenance starts at the top! I have nothing else to say!
Criteria for winning a spot on the United States Palma Team in 2019.
- Thread starter chuckles
- Start date
No skin off my nose but IMO if your going to post a statement like that publicly you should post your real name and location along with it... Just sayin
First post ? Great start...
Pretty cowardly to make a statement like that, in a first post, hiding behind an alias. I've seen a character do this in the past. Said character is bitter and resentful about their experience with the US Palma team. Does the shoe fit?
John Corning
I've heard many teams say that good eyesight is a prime consideration for team shooting, and the sun shining out of somebody's butt can bugger that up.
Pretty sure he actually made a Palma team when it wasn't a good-old-boys club, but his issue appears to be with a Vet Captain's hand-picked team that fell on its posterior like none other before. He got biffed in the schtoinker by a man who felt threatened by his superior abilities (former national champions can do that to some people) and he wasn't the only one.
Which begs a far larger question: Why alienate shooters by having a good old boys club when the end result is a disaster of biblical proportions?
Which begs a far larger question: Why alienate shooters by having a good old boys club when the end result is a disaster of biblical proportions?
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
That page describes a bolt gun god for sure
Why the thin skins?
We can't get any decent info on the US teams except here (ironically, originally a 6br website) or on the NZ fullbore website. The US Palma team website is more or less dormant, and http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/ is a very low traffic forum.
We can't get any decent info on the US teams except here (ironically, originally a 6br website) or on the NZ fullbore website. The US Palma team website is more or less dormant, and http://www.usrifleteams.com/lrforum/ is a very low traffic forum.
Long-Range never was that way when I started/owned/operated it...and the sport was actually growing faster than it ever had. Many of today's 155-guru's never even existed then.
Sadly, the team was handed the forums and domains when they had no real investment in time or effort in it. What it has now turned into is mighty telling, when all things are considered.
Is that so?? Even as the interest in the sport tanks like never before (it's nearly ready for a funeral) because team selection is clearly "fixed" and everybody knows it?
You should be in marketing, LMAO...
I'd rather have 1000 people tryout that are interested, supportive and couldn't break a shot under a coach if their life depended on it. Growing a sport IS winning and one that the NRA will likely support with funding. We tried the other way for multiple cycles now and look where the effort is now. Not sure it can be saved and it would take a mighty convincing argument to get the NRA to cough up the cash for an effort that they had funded previously since 1876. That we lost that funding peeves me just a smidgen.
The problem with the NRA is within the Competitions Division, and the Committees, specifically High Power., but also Smallbore. The competitions division is headed by 3-gun enthusiasts, not competitors in the traditional disciplines that you and I love. The High Power Committee, and to some degree, the Smallbore committee have member(s), and possible leaders that are not versed in the sport. I say this, because one candidate for the NRA BOD has no competitive experience, but is chairman of one committee, and a member of the other. That doesn't help the cause, as evident by the "birth" off of the ASSA as it separated itself from the NRA. Another problem is that the competitors have no direct line to the "Committees". The Committee members do a very good job of maintaining anonymity.
It is wrong, that a US national team has to solicit funds to go represent the US at the World Championships. Yes, it peeves me too that the NRA withdrew funding. What a lot of people don't recognize is that making the Palma team, and shooting the World Championships takes a significant amount of dedication, and a significant financial outlay/commitment (well into 5 figures). I have not done it, but have seen posts where there is discussion of the commitments made.
John Corning
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I have.....twice. So, it isn't like I speak from a position without some experience. I paid my dues like many others before me. I gave them no choice but to put me on the team because I made it out of my own desire, efforts, flexibilities and abilities. I fired the scores and made it on my own merits. Enough "I's" for this month.
To solicit funds, you need:
A) A plan
B) Time
This current team had zero time because they didn't find out until the very last minute that they didn't have funding. Pretty hard to plan when you are put at this disadvantage.
The question now is how to fix it? If we use the mentality exhibited by the hierarchy of recent history, that NRA funding is gone forever and you can count on it. You can't go in front of NRA beancounters and say "Could you please give us some money? We won't promise to grow the sport. We won't promise to bring in new revenue from new shooters or increased match entry fees? In fact, we can't even promise that we will collectively shoot at the US Nationals because we need to demand that our members get International experience. In other words, your organization will get no benefit whatsoever...we just need the money".
They had funding?
Funny, I don't thing the F-class team(s) have *ever* had funding from the NRA. Maybe @Lbart can chime in on that. AFAIK they don't even chip in to cover the entry fee for the team in the World Championships. You have to get their blessing to do so, but they provide nothing beyond that. Every dime comes from either a sponsor, funds raised by the team members, or out of our own pockets.
Well, the NRA owns the Palma trademark, and I doubt that will get torn loose from them.
So, where do you think the problem lies? With the NRA, or with the High Power/Long Range community? With the schism between the NRA and CMP, which basket should we, the competitors, put our eggs in? Is the NRA even committed to competitive shooting any longer? To the best of my knowledge, the CMP is not involved with the f-class disciplines. Should the competitive disciplines splinter off from the NRA, as did the ASSA? Gotta love the 3 National championships for smallbore. These are some of the questions I have seen bandied about on other forums. In order to "fix" problems, these questions have to be honestly answered.
I agree, the funding is gone. That just might be the "new world", and competitors and coaches knowing that will be better prepared as they go forward with future teams. It is a significant financial commitment for a competitor to try out for, compete on the National team, and then go on to the World championships.
By the way, I noticed you only addressed the second paragraph in my post. I feel the first paragraph is directly to the problems of interest, and participation.
To the OP'er, sorry for hijacking your topic.
John Corning
John, my opinion.
Was an industry salesman for a dozen years (with lots of SOTY awards) and when selling someone, they always needed to hear "this is how my product will benefit you" before i could ever consider asking for their order. As it stands, the Palma effort has no benefit to offer to the NRA bean counters whatsoever. They can only point to declining numbers of aging participants. Not good.
What "could" sell them is a clear plan for growth and a vision that provides future benefit to them that they can easily relate to. It is going to require a persona that can use the right words that will convince them to say "we need to jump on this bandwagon like yesterday". It's not me though...too old, too tired, hurt a bit too much and just don't have that fire in my belly anymore. I just want to fish
To any salesman worth their salt, the word NO will never deter them from the goal of eventually taking the order. That is the kind of person that you need to talk with the bean counters.
In the meantime, a completely new, aggressive, promotional arm needs to be established like yesterday. The one that Palma has had since the middle 90's has not performed very well at all. The new promotional arm needs to actually PROMOTE junior membership to a far greater degree, promote the game itself and develop new ideas for obtaining funds beyond the occasional raffle. Also, think about this. Past team members should want to scream "this was the greatest shooting experience of my entire career, bar none" and they should be falling all over themselves to bring others into the sport (or to tryout). I do not believe that we have that mentality right now and it must change somehow. They should be THE best ambassadors of the overall effort.
Regarding your first paragraph. It you couldn't tell, I'm not big on politics...at all. NRA competitions has their problems, no doubt about it. Cannot rail on them too hard because I have not walked in their moccasins and never threw my hat in the ring to do their job. I am surprised to see some of the names on the HP committee. If you were to query the NRA, they would give you the names. In a perfect world, the committee would be comprised of the level-headed, having a good knowledge of ALL Highpower disciplines. It is not that way now.
Was an industry salesman for a dozen years (with lots of SOTY awards) and when selling someone, they always needed to hear "this is how my product will benefit you" before i could ever consider asking for their order. As it stands, the Palma effort has no benefit to offer to the NRA bean counters whatsoever. They can only point to declining numbers of aging participants. Not good.
What "could" sell them is a clear plan for growth and a vision that provides future benefit to them that they can easily relate to. It is going to require a persona that can use the right words that will convince them to say "we need to jump on this bandwagon like yesterday". It's not me though...too old, too tired, hurt a bit too much and just don't have that fire in my belly anymore. I just want to fish
To any salesman worth their salt, the word NO will never deter them from the goal of eventually taking the order. That is the kind of person that you need to talk with the bean counters.In the meantime, a completely new, aggressive, promotional arm needs to be established like yesterday. The one that Palma has had since the middle 90's has not performed very well at all. The new promotional arm needs to actually PROMOTE junior membership to a far greater degree, promote the game itself and develop new ideas for obtaining funds beyond the occasional raffle. Also, think about this. Past team members should want to scream "this was the greatest shooting experience of my entire career, bar none" and they should be falling all over themselves to bring others into the sport (or to tryout). I do not believe that we have that mentality right now and it must change somehow. They should be THE best ambassadors of the overall effort.
Regarding your first paragraph. It you couldn't tell, I'm not big on politics...at all. NRA competitions has their problems, no doubt about it. Cannot rail on them too hard because I have not walked in their moccasins and never threw my hat in the ring to do their job. I am surprised to see some of the names on the HP committee. If you were to query the NRA, they would give you the names. In a perfect world, the committee would be comprised of the level-headed, having a good knowledge of ALL Highpower disciplines. It is not that way now.
F-Class hasn't been around since 1876 and wasn't the first NRA shooting match. That could have a tiny bit to do with it.
Neither was Palma... the Creedmoor was - which was conducted with (at the time) the state of the art in long-range target rifles - more in kin with F-class than Palma, in that sense. It wasn't until later that they got firmly mired in the whole sling-n-iron-sights thing, and post-WWII/NATO that they got into the military caliber / bullet weight restrictions.
Amazing that the NRA didn't trademark "Creedmoor".
The “Palma® Match”
The “Great Centennial Rifle Match” 1876
The inaugural World Long Range Championship was held in 1876 as part of the centennial celebrations of American independence. The fledgling National Rifle Association of America sent invitations to rifle teams around the world, and shooters from Australia, Canada, Scotland and Ireland arrived in Creedmoor, New York on September 13-14, 1876 to compete.
Initially called the “Great Centennial Rifle Match,” the event was later nicknamed the “Palma®” match (1878) in reference to the grand trophy designed and crafted by Tiffany and Company, which featured an eagle holding a silver laurel wreath in its claw over which was a banner inscribed with the word Palma® . A second panel bore the words, "In the name of the United States of America to the riflemen of the world." The rest of the trophy is a baroque collation of scrollwork, fasces, friezes, and fringes. A great chain, holding discs to be engraved with the winner's names, was draped from both upper corners.
By 1878, it was called "The Palma Trophy". https://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-090.pdf
The “Palma® Match”
The “Great Centennial Rifle Match” 1876
The inaugural World Long Range Championship was held in 1876 as part of the centennial celebrations of American independence. The fledgling National Rifle Association of America sent invitations to rifle teams around the world, and shooters from Australia, Canada, Scotland and Ireland arrived in Creedmoor, New York on September 13-14, 1876 to compete.
Initially called the “Great Centennial Rifle Match,” the event was later nicknamed the “Palma®” match (1878) in reference to the grand trophy designed and crafted by Tiffany and Company, which featured an eagle holding a silver laurel wreath in its claw over which was a banner inscribed with the word Palma® . A second panel bore the words, "In the name of the United States of America to the riflemen of the world." The rest of the trophy is a baroque collation of scrollwork, fasces, friezes, and fringes. A great chain, holding discs to be engraved with the winner's names, was draped from both upper corners.
By 1878, it was called "The Palma Trophy". https://competitions.nra.org/documents/pdf/compete/nat-trophy/tro-090.pdf
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