Crimping Jacketed Rifle bullets without cannelures ?

[hoz53]

LFCD info says minimum of 25 pounds of crimp. I’m Scratching my head wondering how I can do that with my RCBS one armed bandit? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Well this is a 6 year old thread that i forgot about but its timely for me as ive been loading ar-15;ammo lately after a bit of a hiatus. I dont really know how much force you need to crimp but I dont think youll have any problem putting the force needed on the handle to get it done.

 

[hoz53]

Forget the crimp

thanks for the info- ill try it that way for sure

 

[hoz53]

I shot NRA high power with AR15s in 223 and 6mm for quite a few years and never crimped. Never had any problems.

thats good to know- Thank You

 

[hoz53]

I have shot 30-40,000 rounds thrue AR platforms over the last 20 years without a crimp. Adding a crimp is a solution looking for a problem.

Thanks for that info Walt.

 

[hoz53]

I never crimp my AR ammo.

Thanks for that info.

 

[hoz53]

Another no-crimper. Please don't get me wrong; crimp if you want to, but why add a process step?

I'm curious as to why you want to crimp?

I suppose some have said that crimps improve their accuracy; but I've never seen a crimp on the shooting line at a match. I have to conclude that load work-ups are more important.

Is it for storing a large batch of ammo? If so there's far more important process steps and crimping isn't one that helps long term storage.

Is it to prevent bullet set-back? Recoil based; it's a non-issue on 223. Maybe I'm wrong?

Preventing a bullet from being stuck in the barrel? If your AR is a Wylde or 5.56 chamber and you're seating for mag length, any bullet is still a LONG way from the lands.

Squib load protection? Primer still has enough pressure to send the bullet into the barrel. Keep a range rod with you.

Use bullet point as disassembly tool? Ok, yes crimp bullets for this. Don't see how it'll maintain accuracy though.

-Mac

Hi Mac-- My only reason to crimp would be to prevent bullet setback. thats quite a reply you made to me. Thanks for the help

 

[hoz53]

I also shoot Highpower, and have for many years. I have never crimped for an AR, M1 or M14 clone.

Danny

thats some strong evidence for not crimping- Thanks

 

[hoz53]

I shoot a 20 practical, AR platform, 40 grain boat tail bullets, about 3/16 of bearing surface in the neck, with .001 neck tension, can't really crimp and never had a problem. If you are concerned about bullet movement and you have a bullet puller of some stripe, take a couple rounds each of crimped and non crimped dummy rounds and try pulling your bullet. The inertia/impact puller would probably be the best test.

Hi Dale-- I was surprised this 6 year old thread got resurected and people were adding to it. But its timely as Im loading more ar-15 ammo lately than the last few years. I just made my 1st AR 15 barrel out of a blank. Actually an old Remington barrel. Got it installed in an upper and ready to go. I plan on shooting the heck out of this thing-
Thanks for your help

 

[hoz53]

I can almost guarantee That a crimp will not improve your accuracy, It will only degrade it.

Thanks for that info

 

[hoz53]

I use the exact setup... The only way to tell would be to try some... I crimp my .223 for the AR platform , better safe than sorry... I have seen them get reseated in operation.... Since I use iron sights super accuracy is not that important but I want all I can get... I have crimped Berry's bullets for pistol like your talking about with no problems... Rifle though is a different story...

With the LFC die I would try some at 1/4 turn and 1/2 turn and see what they do on paper...

Thanks for that info. Thats the reason (setback) that i would want to crimp so ill be watching and wont crimp inless i have problems. Crimping on a bullet with a crimp groove is no problem, its the bullets with no crimp groove i wondered about. It will be fun to see how it works. I hope youre doing well after youre recent health scare - take care

 

[mac86951]

Hi Mac-- My only reason to crimp would be to prevent bullet setback. thats quite a reply you made to me. Thanks for the help

Ok, got it. I do a crimp process on pistol; though I find that to really tobe for ensuring free chambering on cases that headspace on the case mouth by removing the bell formed for seating.

Bullet set-back in an AR? Certainly not recoil induced; but I could see it being feed induced, however bottle neck cartridge IME the case takes the damage and using tap rack bang; I'm not about to reuse the ejected live rounds. In that regards, a crimp isn't making me happier about bullet set-back and pressure related spikes that might be induced.

For me the decision to not crimp is to remove a process step of loading, and I think the rest of us are all suggesting that perhaps you might wish to give that a thought.

If you're using plated or something similar to cast; I would change my mind for sure, similar to pistol loading and providing that extra chambering insurance; though other questions come up right after.

-Mac

 

[Rsadams]

Thanks for that info. Thats the reason (setback) that i would want to crimp so ill be watching and wont crimp inless i have problems. Crimping on a bullet with a crimp groove is no problem, its the bullets with no crimp groove i wondered about. It will be fun to see how it works. I hope youre doing well after youre recent health scare - take care

Thanks for the kind words.... One thing to try with the LFC die is playing with the settings which are a bunch depending on how much or little you adjust the knob.... On thing I did years ago was to see what those are... I took four pieces of brass and four bullets , no primers or powder of course.... Seated all four bullets , then adjusted the LFC die to a quarter turn , then with another loaded round a half turn , the three quarters then another with a full turn.... I then pulled all four bullets to actually see how much crimp I was getting... If you do this you can see what it's doing... That's very helpful...

I used to do a bunch of Berry's bullets for .38spl that didn't have a crimp ring and you would be shocked at how much you can crimp without it affecting the flight of the bullets and how thick Berry's coating is... The only way to make sure your not getting setback in rifle is to check every other one which is a pain and it only takes one getting by you... But if your like me NOT loading anywhere near hot , that's one thing but loading hot plus a bunch of setback can be another...

I know right now it sucks trying to find the exact bullets , powder and primers you want so it's a good time to experiment a little for the future... Plus you may find something different you like...

 

[Zero333]

LFCD info says minimum of 25 pounds of crimp. I’m Scratching my head wondering how I can do that with my RCBS one armed bandit? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

When I use the Lee Factory Crimp Die, I go by feel and the way it looks.

 

[hoz53]

Ok, got it. I do a crimp process on pistol; though I find that to really tobe for ensuring free chambering on cases that headspace on the case mouth by removing the bell formed for seating.

Bullet set-back in an AR? Certainly not recoil induced; but I could see it being feed induced, however bottle neck cartridge IME the case takes the damage and using tap rack bang; I'm not about to reuse the ejected live rounds. In that regards, a crimp isn't making me happier about bullet set-back and pressure related spikes that might be induced.

For me the decision to not crimp is to remove a process step of loading, and I think the rest of us are all suggesting that perhaps you might wish to give that a thought.

If you're using plated or something similar to cast; I would change my mind for sure, similar to pistol loading and providing that extra chambering insurance; though other questions come up right after.

-Mac

Hi Mac- I imagine Ill be loading my 223 AR ammo without a crimp and see how it goes. In the past thats mostly worked but i have had a few bullet setbacks. I am using copper jacketed bullets in it. Ill give it a try and see how it goes. I dont think any of my stuff is for life or death situations so Im sure it will all work out -thanks

 

[hoz53]

Thanks for the kind words.... One thing to try with the LFC die is playing with the settings which are a bunch depending on how much or little you adjust the knob.... On thing I did years ago was to see what those are... I took four pieces of brass and four bullets , no primers or powder of course.... Seated all four bullets , then adjusted the LFC die to a quarter turn , then with another loaded round a half turn , the three quarters then another with a full turn.... I then pulled all four bullets to actually see how much crimp I was getting... If you do this you can see what it's doing... That's very helpful...

I used to do a bunch of Berry's bullets for .38spl that didn't have a crimp ring and you would be shocked at how much you can crimp without it affecting the flight of the bullets and how thick Berry's coating is... The only way to make sure your not getting setback in rifle is to check every other one which is a pain and it only takes one getting by you... But if your like me NOT loading anywhere near hot , that's one thing but loading hot plus a bunch of setback can be another...

I know right now it sucks trying to find the exact bullets , powder and primers you want so it's a good time to experiment a little for the future... Plus you may find something different you like...

Thanks for all the info. I will be experimenting with it for sure. Not even sure if i have a LFC die but i think so. Anyway Ive decided to try to use(use up) the components I have before buying more so it ought to be interesting. Some of that stuff will be for handgun loads i certainly will be crimping. I have a progressive set up for 223 that i want to make sure will get them right.

 

[Michael C]

I have and use a Lee FCD and have been for about 15 years on my AR15 ammo for my short line XTC NRA/CMP service rifle. I did a test back when I got it to see if it made any accuracy difference. I was not concerned with bullets moving during recoil as an AR barley has any... I was interested in accuracy gains if any. I was using once fired military brass and feel that using it creates uniform next tension. Could I be wrong... maybe. I shot several groups at the 200 yard reduced 600 target slow fire prone with both crimped and uncrimped rounds. 24.2g Varget with 77g SMK, Rem7.5 primer in White Oak Armory Wilson barrel. The groups shot with the crimp die were smaller...about 1/4 to 1/3 smaller. I was shocked. Now, I was not putting some heavy crimp, but rather, just kissing them with the die. I continued to use that same method and LEGed out. Now, here is the thing...I am the only guy in my club (lots of distinguished riflemen/women) and the only one doing it. I regularly clean sitting rapid and 300 rapid. So, don’t believe it when someone says it will degrade accuracy. Do you need to crimp... no, and it will likely not help much. But, my testing yielded a benefit. It’s a cheap die and may be worth testing. It also depends on what you are loading for and expect from the rifle.

 

[46and2]

Ar10= worlds most expensive bullet puller.
I had trouble with consistency with my 6mm Creedmoor until I tried a Lee factory Crimp die. 5 shots prone at 200 yards.

 

[243Mendoza]

I have reloaded for 223 for the past 30 years for competition and plinking and I have never crimped. If you shoot 600yd or beyond, crimping damages the bullet and reduces BC.

 

[BlackBush]

Thanks for that info. Thats the reason (setback) that i would want to crimp so ill be watching and wont crimp inless i have problems. Crimping on a bullet with a crimp groove is no problem, its the bullets with no crimp groove i wondered about. It will be fun to see how it works. I hope youre doing well after youre recent health scare - take care

To crimp or not crimp. I'm completely new to reloading and have been a bit stumped on crimping. Bullet setback being the concern.

Planning to work loads for 68gr, 69gr, and 77gr without cannelure. Shooting at 300-500 yards for accuracy from the bench with AR15, wylde chamber, 18", 1:8. Will be working loads up from minimum. I have both a LFCD and AR dies from RCBS.

Rsadams, you mention working crimp on inert rounds. That you "adjusted the LFC die to a quarter turn , then with another loaded round a half turn , the three quarters then another with a full turn.... I then pulled all four bullets to actually see how much crimp I was getting... If you do this you can see what it's doing" Appreciate the advice.