Coyote gun conundrum

[Phil]

I’m thinking about a Creedmoor, either a 22 or a 6mm either would be using 70-80gr bullets.
BC, speed and max point blank range are all considerations for a point and shoot calling gun.

What day the people who have already traveled this road, given the two options, which way would you go and why…..

I’m curious to see what others have to say about this.

Thanks for reading,

Phil.

 

[kyotekiller25]

The 22 creed with a 75g ELDM or 6 Creed with 80g ELDVT would be your best bet for speed/BC and MPBR. Pick 1 and go....

I personally just use the 108g ELDM in my 6 Creed. Then again it's a dual purpose dog/match rifle out to 1K. Not interested in using 2 bullets, 2 loads, and switching dopes.

 

[JB10]

If i had to pick id might go 22cm. I have 2 6mm creedmoors and like them. One is brand new and waiting on some brass for load work up. The other i shoot 108 eldms. That is wrong bullet for coyotes at closer ranges. I have not had one yet that went down first shot. All been torn open and needed another shot. I do not have any experience with the bullet grain you are thinking. But id stay light if you run the chance of close shots. My close shots are often and between 20-60 yards.

 

[muleystalker]

If i had to pick id might go 22cm. I have 2 6mm creedmoors and like them. One is brand new and waiting on some brass for load work up. The other i shoot 108 eldms. That is wrong bullet for coyotes at closer ranges. I have not had one yet that went down first shot. All been torn open and needed another shot. I do not have any experience with the bullet grain you are thinking. But id stay light if you run the chance of close shots. My close shots are often and between 20-60 yards.

20-60 yards is when you pick up the shotgun instead of the rifle. I always tried to have a shotgun at hand when I was calling a lot back in the day, great for when they surprise you and pop up close!

 

[JB10]

20-60 yards is when you pick up the shotgun instead of the rifle. I always tried to have a shotgun at hand when I was calling a lot back in the day, great for when they surprise you and pop up close!

Oh i ran a shotgun for several years and it worked well. I just got to where i hated walking a 1/4 mile or more into a stand carrying all my stuff and 2 guns. I also got into suppressors and did not have one for a shotgun.

 

[AckleymanII]

Hunted coyotes for 30 years, long time caller. 350 yards is a long shot in my experience.

My favorite calibers:
22/250 AI-55g at 4050 fps
243 Win-60g Sierra at 3850
-80g Sierra at 3400
243 AI-70g at 3750-3850
6Remington-60g sierra at 4000 fps
80g Sierra at 3500
6 Remington AI-70g Nosler at 4100
80g Sierra at 3800
We also killed a lot of coyotes with 10 & 12ga shotguns

Phil, I don't know the type of terrain you are hunting in, so it is hard to advise you on what is best for your hunting. In our style of hunting/calling, there was never the opportunity to range a coyote. You had split seconds to acquire the coyote and fire.

 

[WyleWD]

Hunted coyotes for 30 years, long time caller. 350 yards is a long shot in my experience.

My favorite calibers:
22/250 AI-55g at 4050 fps
243 Win-60g Sierra at 3850
-80g Sierra at 3400
243 AI-70g at 3750-3850
6Remington-60g sierra at 4000 fps
80g Sierra at 3500
6 Remington AI-70g Nosler at 4100
80g Sierra at 3800
We also killed a lot of coyotes with 10 & 12ga shotguns

Phil, I don't know the type of terrain you are hunting in, so it is hard to advise you on what is best for your hunting. In our style of hunting/calling, there was never the opportunity to range a coyote. You had split seconds to acquire the coyote and fire.

+1^^^^^ I agree with AckleymanII's comments and bullet choices. Also notice that he's using rounds capable of pretty high velocity with bullet weights of 55-80gr.

So Phil, IMHO just flip a coin on your choice between the 22 and 6CM and chose a twist rate and FB that works with bullets of whatever you choose, but his last paragraph exactly mirrors my experience in calling situations. JME. WD

 

[nakneker]

No wrong choice between a 22CM and a 6CM. I’d opt for the 22CM and 55gr/60gr poly tipped bullets. Ballastic tips, Vmax, Blitzking all do a great job. Most of my shots calling, 80% or more have been within 100 yards but it’s nice to be able reach out and touch the smart ass yote that hangs up at distances that require a guy to dial to center punch him, something that has become somewhat of a science the last few years. If the country and style of varmint calling your doing is gonna open up the average shot to longer distances than a heavier bullet may be advantageous to what you’re doing in either caliber.

If a guy went with the 6mm a good bullet in 60-80 grain weights at 6CM speeds should produce some spectacular kills near and far too, heavier if your bucking the wind and pushing the distance of your average shot.

 

[AWS]

I hunt coyotes west of the Mississippi, my three all time favorite coyote cartridge are the 20.Practical(new kid on the block), 222 Rem and a 22-204. The 20P works well with 40gr NBTs, the 222's thrive on 52gr Speer FB HPs and when calling in cat country 45gr Speer softpoints(they work well on coyotes), the 22-204 lives on 40gr NBTs it was my pelt hunting rig when coyotes were worth alot.

Yesterday Sako 222 Rem 45gr Speer

20P

22-204, ugly coyote needed to be removed from the gene-pool

I really like combo guns for called coyotes. I found some 55gr .228 softpoints for my BRNO in 22 Savage Highpower/12ga topped with a Leupold 1-4 scope has been the demise of more than a couple coyotes. I just started using a Valmet 222 Rem/12ga last year and it is a dandy. I'm headed out for a hunt, combo waterfowl and coyotes and loaded up Bismuth B's and Varmint Grenades for the Valmet it has a set of 12ga O/U barrels too so makes a nice travel rig.

The BRNO

The Valmet

Over the past couple years I've killed called coyotes with 22 WMR, 22-250, 22-250 AI, 6mm-204, 6x45, 6mm ARC, 25-204 and 6.5 Grendel. My favorite bullets for coyotes .224 52gr Speer, 6mm 55gr NBT except the ARC 75gr Speer HP, .257 75gr V-max and 6.5 the Speer 90gr HP. My shotgun load is 1 1/4 oz of NP BBs as they are in combo guns I don't have to stretch the shotgun just switch triggers and use the rifle beyond 40 yards..

I just like the 222 Rem and find it more than sufficient for called coyotes inside 200 yards and I rarely have to take longer shots than that.

What ever you pick will kill coyotes, only the 247 Herter's Ram Magnum will Kill them "deader than dead", George L. said that himself.

 

[STOMP442]

If calling Coyotes is the only purpose of the rifle I would pick the 22 Creed and run a 52gr Berger as fast as I could. I have also hunted Coyotes for a lot of years, started with a pretty basic AR and it worked okay. I'm just not much of an AR guy. Plus these Arizona desert dogs are just built different and they are tough. I would get a lot of runners with the .223. I decided I needed more gun and went with the .250-3000. Worked like a champ with 87gr Sierras. No more runners but a decent amount of mess. I ran that combo for a lot of years. Then I got into the 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini platform and thought I found gold running the 85gr Sierra HPs but it struggled on longer shots in the wind and was 50/50 on being messy or not. The last few years I have tried all kinds of different calibers trying to find the one that did everything I wanted and now I have a safe full of "Coyote rifles" and they all get their turn but the one I grab the most over the last two years is the tried and true 22-250. I am running the 52gr Berger a touch over 3700fps with H4895 and superb accuracy. I have never had that bullet exit a coyote yet and they pretty much drop on the spot. I don't get runners, and I don't get a giant nasty mess. The best part is when zeroed at 100 yards its point and click out to 300 yards and just plain works. I would venture to say the 22 Creed would be a little more of a good thing

 

[1lessdog]

If calling Coyotes is the only purpose of the rifle I would pick the 22 Creed and run a 52gr Berger as fast as I could. I have also hunted Coyotes for a lot of years, started with a pretty basic AR and it worked okay. I'm just not much of an AR guy. Plus these Arizona desert dogs are just built different and they are tough. I would get a lot of runners with the .223. I decided I needed more gun and went with the .250-3000. Worked like a champ with 87gr Sierras. No more runners but a decent amount of mess. I ran that combo for a lot of years. Then I got into the 6.5 Grendel in the Howa mini platform and thought I found gold running the 85gr Sierra HPs but it struggled on longer shots in the wind and was 50/50 on being messy or not. The last few years I have tried all kinds of different calibers trying to find the one that did everything I wanted and now I have a safe full of "Coyote rifles" and they all get their turn but the one I grab the most over the last two years is the tried and true 22-250. I am running the 52gr Berger a touch over 3700fps with H4895 and superb accuracy. I have never had that bullet exit a coyote yet and they pretty much drop on the spot. I don't get runners, and I don't get a giant nasty mess. The best part is when zeroed at 100 yards its point and click out to 300 yards and just plain works. I would venture to say the 22 Creed would be a little more of a good thing

I have killed Coyotes from Canada to Texas and Indiana to Nevada and even Arizona. The Coyotes are all tough, they have a will to live like a Elk. I have shot them with every kind of gun. My go to cartridge is a 22-6MM AI with Sierra 50 gr Blitzking. Pushing a 50 gr bullet close to 4300 fps. And I get no spinners or runners. Shoot them in the front shoulders and down they go. A frontal shot is just as deadly.

Speed kills and no hold over out to 475 yds.

 

[AWS]

I agree with 1lessdog, keep your bullet in front of the diaphragm, away from the edges and enough bullet not to splash on bone and you won't have to deal with runners no matter where you live.

 

[AckleymanII]

Calling in open country is a tad different. I have a very, very experienced friend that shoots a 6/284 with 55g Noslers at almost 4400 fps, and the 6 Rem AI will almost do the same. Talking about point blank range! Yee Haa!

Reamers do not always match the bullet you want to shoot, so NEVER disregard this issue! If you are not shooting over 350 yards, the creed with zero to .020 freebore would be perfect for a 53g V max or 55g Nosler ballistic tip in the 4000 fps area...make no mistake about it, this would be worth ordering a reamer for.

Between 275 and 350 yards is where many call-wise, weary coyotes will circle and stop, trying to catch the wind. You do not have the time for monkeying around with knobs, and I have seen a lot of coyotes shot low in the stomach where they dump their guts on the ground with cartridges with loads that have a poor trajectory. The Sierra 80g Blitz is a bullet worth building a rifle around, and the 243 AI shooting them at 3600 is amazing in how flat shooting they are. You never have to doubt if you hit a coyote when shooting the 80g Sierra Blitz as it has the loudest PLOP sound of any bullet I have ever shot. A custom 243 Win, 12T, 26" shoots the 80g Sierra at 3400 with a hot load of IMR 4064 with Federal 210s.

It would be a mistake to think of shooting 53-55g bullets in a 22 Creed with freebore set up for 80-90g bullets....don't be fooled. The same thing would apply to a 6 Creed wanting to shoot the 55g Noslers with an 8T with freebore set up for 105g Bullets. You not only have to consider how a barrel will shoot when it is new, but 1500 rounds later where your choice of Freebore would be critical.

 

[STS]

It looks like the OP is in California, which is a whole different ball of wax when their non lead bullet mandate is considered.

 

[1lessdog]

Between 275 and 350 yards is where many call-wise, weary coyotes will circle and stop, trying to catch the wind. You do not have the time for monkeying around with knobs, and I have seen a lot of coyotes shot low in the stomach where they dump their guts on the ground with cartridges with loads that have a poor trajectory. The Sierra 80g Blitz is a bullet worth building a rifle around, and the 243 AI shooting them at 3600 is amazing in how flat shooting they are. You never have to doubt if you hit a coyote when shooting the 80g Sierra Blitz as it has the loudest PLOP sound of any bullet I have ever shot. A custom 243 Win, 12T, 26" shoots the 80g Sierra at 3400 with a hot load of IMR 4064 with Federal 210s.

The 275 to 350 seems to be where a Coyote is comfortable seating and watching to see what's going on. My scopes duplex is my range finder and when they fill the gap. They are in trouble.

 

[AWS]

The 6mm 55 gr NBT Lead Free has been very effective in my 6x45 and 6mm-204. When WA was talking about going LF I worked up loads for them so I could be out hunting instead of sitting home knashing my teeth and bitching about having to shoot unattainable LF ammo. 62gr VGs were accurate also. I tried some 50gr NBT LFs in my 22-204 and they worked. The state backed off but I was ready.

 

[AckleymanII]

AWS, my 22/204s(12/9T) are both excellent and the 6/204 is amazing with 70g Nosler Ballsitic tips @3500.

The 53g V max with 29.2g of IMR 8208, CCI br4 is 3700 fps in my 26" barrel, shoots 3/8" at 200 yards!

I had a JGS reamer ground with .020 freebore that sits the 55g Nosler perfectly, just barely above the shoulder neck junction, 1/4" groups does not suck! I have had 20 bags of Winchester brass on back order for a while now.

Thanks for your help in the project!

 

[K22]

You should define some parameters. For example, eastern or western hunting, maximum distances involved, day or night or both hunting, etc.

I am not an expert on hunting these critters and have only shot about 100 of them over several years. Here in the eastern PA, shot opportunities are mostly under 300 yards. Typically, distance for me where I hunt is about 200 to 250 yards. I found the 223 Rem with 55 Nosler BT's to be reliable. However, my favorite is 60 Vmax in an 8" twist 223 Rem. All bolt rifles with varmint grade accuracy.

For me, my success has been more about calling skill and watching the wind than a caliber of rifle. I believe any of the .224 caliber varmint calibers are adequate with correct shot placement if the distances are not beyond 300 yards. Beyond that, I would opt for the 22 250.

My favorite predator rifle is the Tikka T1X Lite, 223. The excellent accuracy and lite weight are a huge plus. The latter attribute makes changing stands easy and quick.

 

[ohlongarmisle]

I’m thinking about a Creedmoor, either a 22 or a 6mm either would be using 70-80gr bullets.
BC, speed and max point blank range are all considerations for a point and shoot calling gun.

What day the people who have already traveled this road, given the two options, which way would you go and why…..

I’m curious to see what others have to say about this.

Thanks for reading,

Phil.

Having killed well north of 500, quit counting then, but have pictures of 90% killed. I see many tend to overthink this. Before the 204 came on the scene, the 22hornet and 22/250 served me perfectly, range dependent of course. The hornet was solid out to 150, the 22/250 out to 350 farthest shot I've ever taken with it. Lately, the Hornet was replaced with the 17 Hornet, kill shot out to 250. The farthest shot in my coyote killing career was 410 yards with the 204, Hornady 40 grain V-max DRT. States hunted, home state Ohio, Iowa, South Dakota, Arizona, Montana, Louisiana, Virginia, North and South Carolina. I've called and shot over bait piles, and I find the eastern brush wolves to be the toughest by a hair. I've perfected my kill zone with the hornet to be a neck, head, or heart shot, and it's worked perfectly.I always know my ranges at all times when I'm at it, as I range find markers in my area with my range finder, those can be a tree, fence line, farm equipment, treeline, etc. Knowing that and where the rifle shoots takes out the guessing game. This male took a hit this week over a bait pile what's left of it at 125 broadside in the neck intentionally with the hornet, severed, jugular, windpipe, and spine,20 grain Vmax 17 hornet,reason so much destruction is apparent is because there's lots of pressure in that are with the jugular, note the splatter where he fell next to the log,I pulled him away for a better picture.Look at picture #1 #4,#6 the hornet exited and went into the log and pulled a plug of fur with it visibly showing where it entered.

 

[Matt_3479]

I would go 22 creed. I’ve used 204’s, 20 tactical, 223’s, 22 bra, 243, 6mm creed, 25 creed, and 260 rem.

My go too are 20 tactical and 22bra. A 22 creed with 55-75gr bullets would be a perfect calling rifle. I use the 20 tactical for calling primarily inside 350 with 39gr blitzkings at 4030fps and 22bra for those longer shots/fields or bait with 85.5gr Berger at 3130 fps