Copper shavings seating bullets - problem solved

[newbieshooter]

I started reloading this year - so I'm still a newbie. Recently, I started reloading various hpbt bullets into a 6.5 Grendel cartridge necked down to 6mm. After seating bullets, I would notice really small copper shavings at the case holder base. I couldn't figure out what was going on.

I did a search on this forum and found several old posts from 2011/2013 time-frame. Here's an example of an answer [credit to fdshuster]:

Sometimes just using the standard deburring tool ( that looks like a rocket ship) is not enough, as they can leave a sharp edge around the circumference, just a few thousandths below the case mouth. It's this sharp edge that catches on the bullet jacket & scrapes off the tiny copper shavings that then can be seen on the case mouth. At that point the accuracy of the bullet has been compromised.

I inside taper neck ream all my cases, using the very excellent KM Inside Taper Neck Reamer. Cost is approx. $28, they last a very long time, and unless your brass is stretching a lot, seldom has to be done again.

A simple test before seating bullets, especially flat base, is to take a bullet & try to sit it on top of the case mouth and see if it will remain in place without you holding it. Bet you can't do it.

After I inside taper neck ream I'm able to take a flat base bullet, even those with a pressure ring, gently place the bullet in the case mouth, squarely, rotate the case so the bullet is pointing at the floor & it will not fall out.

A good indication if the bullet is hanging up on seating, and catching on that sharp edge is when initially seating you feel the need for more than normal force being necessary to seat the bullet, you apply it, then it suddenly breaks lose & seats normally. When the seating force suddenly lessened is when the copper was torn from the surface of the jacket & damaged.

All the efforts the bullet maker put into creating an accurate bullet were instantly destroyed.

Sure enough, I was using the standard debur tool. Even though I've reloaded using the same tool for my 6mm BR cases without any shaving problems - it appears this case did not like the standard debur angle.

So I bought a low priced VLD deburring tool (22 degree angle) to see if that would solve my problem. Sure enough, after using the VLD tool - bullets seated smoothly, with much less effort, and without shaving any of the copper jacket. Now I can look at investing in the KM Inside Taper tool ($45).

So for the first 300 rounds, I've been shooting bullets with small parts of the copper jacket shaved off. I've only been able to shoot 100/200 yards - I haven't been able to tell if accuracy was compromised much at these short distance [then again i am still a newbie]. Maybe at longer distances?

There is so much info here - sometimes it is overwhelming for a newbie like me. Even a post from 4 years ago was informative and helped solved my problem. Just wanted to say Thank You to everyone on this forum for sharing and willing to help those of us just getting started.
Happy Holidays!

 

[chuckbuster243]

I am glad you figured out and fixed your problem. I to had these issues when I started and had to figure it out on my own at the time... I wish I was on this site at the time. I found that on my reformed or cases that have not been annealed I see it happen more often. Just due to the harder neck I presume. Glad the forum helped you. Merry Christmas! Matt

 

[1shot]

This seems like a good a place as any to say thank you to every member of this forum that has at one time or another shared their experience or solution to a problem. I will absolutely bet the farm that whatever problem you have had, someone on here has already had it an resolved it. Either by themselves, or with the help of another forum member. We are all newbies here to some degree or another. The way we get better is from the help of others. I posted this just to remind both myself and others that we are never to old to learn, and knowledge is something that we can never have enough of, nor can anyone take it from us.
Happy and safe holidays to all of you and yours.
God bless,
Lloyd

 

[Brians356]

Or after deburring you could just spin the case mouth for a few seconds against a wad of 0000 steel wool.

 

[savagedasher]

Or after deburring you could just spin the case mouth for a few seconds against a wad of 0000 steel wool.

Aarently the vld tool worked why would he want to try something else?
Larry

 

[Brians356]

Or after deburring you could just spin the case mouth for a few seconds against a wad of 0000 steel wool.

Aarently the vld tool worked why would he want to try something else?
Larry

Why not?

Burnishing w/ steel wool smooths bullet entry regardless of the angle of the deburr cutter. Look at the neck's edge under magnification some time - yikes! And it's not unlikely buying yet another tool will be unnecessary. Finally, many other folks learn by reading these threads.

 

[bdubb78]

Newbieshooter--

I have been having the same problem loading .308 Nosler Accubonds into 1x fired cases that accept Sierra Matchkings with no issues whatsoever. I just bought a Lyman M die after other forums suggested this as a fix, but if I can get by with a different angle of chamfer than the RCBS tool imparts, that would be a better way to go. Which tool did you buy that was cheap with the 22 degree angle? Was simple hand reaming sufficient or did you have to hook it up to a drill to remove enough brass? The Lyman die hasn't arrived yet, but i would like to check them both head to head. It has been a frustrating way to process expensive bullets, but I'm hoping this is the fix. Thanks.

 

[Rsadams]

Newbieshooter--

I have been having the same problem loading .308 Nosler Accubonds into 1x fired cases that accept Sierra Matchkings with no issues whatsoever. I just bought a Lyman M die after other forums suggested this as a fix, but if I can get by with a different angle of chamfer than the RCBS tool imparts, that would be a better way to go. Which tool did you buy that was cheap with the 22 degree angle? Was simple hand reaming sufficient or did you have to hook it up to a drill to remove enough brass? The Lyman die hasn't arrived yet, but i would like to check them both head to head. It has been a frustrating way to process expensive bullets, but I'm hoping this is the fix. Thanks.

The tools both the lyman and rcbs are under 20 bucks.. I use the lyman Becouse it came with my case prep station.. ( highly recommend the case prep station it's a hand and time saver. ) but be careful they are normally very sharp and work quickly...

 

[bdubb78]

This is the one I used, and it didn't seem to get the job done. I was always inclined on a hand tool variant to prevent removing too much material.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00162QL1S/?tag=accuratescom-20

 

[Fotheringill]

I used that"Flash Gordon" tool linked above for a few years until my hand rebelled against its further use. Get one for the inside and one for the outside, each screwing into an adapter, put it into a power screwdriver and never look back.

 

[newbieshooter]

Newbieshooter--

I have been having the same problem loading .308 Nosler Accubonds into 1x fired cases that accept Sierra Matchkings with no issues whatsoever. I just bought a Lyman M die after other forums suggested this as a fix, but if I can get by with a different angle of chamfer than the RCBS tool imparts, that would be a better way to go. Which tool did you buy that was cheap with the 22 degree angle? Was simple hand reaming sufficient or did you have to hook it up to a drill to remove enough brass? The Lyman die hasn't arrived yet, but i would like to check them both head to head. It has been a frustrating way to process expensive bullets, but I'm hoping this is the fix. Thanks.

I have a rcbs prep station. So i bought the RCBS Chamfer VLD replacement head for about $10. They also have a handled version (also available as Amazon add-on item). I now use the K&M Chamfer hand tool for match loads.

After chamfering, i run the cases up/down on the prep station stiff nylon brush several times.
Hope this helps.

 

[Shaggy357]

Or after deburring you could just spin the case mouth for a few seconds against a wad of 0000 steel wool.

0000 Steel wool does work well on cases. Shines them right up and removes the tiniest of burrs. One caution tho...no one has mentioned this yet. As you deburr the outside of the case neck, and the inside of the case neck, especially with the 22 degree inside tool, you are creating a pair of bevels similar to those of a knife. The case mouth can get darn sharp if you overdo the deburring process. Keep your finger a little too close as you hold the bullet in place for seating, and the case mouth can shave your finger. Picking up a handful of cases can also cause cuts on your hands. Don't ask me how I know. I just know. Be careful if you create sharp edges. With new cutters, and little experience, it is going to happen.

Stay safe!

 

[Fotheringill]

0000 Steel wool does work well on cases. Shines them right up and removes the tiniest of burrs. One caution tho...no one has mentioned this yet. As you deburr the outside of the case neck, and the inside of the case neck, especially with the 22 degree inside tool, you are creating a pair of bevels similar to those of a knife. The case mouth can get darn sharp if you overdo the deburring process. Keep your finger a little too close as you hold the bullet in place for seating, and the case mouth can shave your finger. Picking up a handful of cases can also cause cuts on your hands. Don't ask me how I know. I just know. Be careful if you create sharp edges. With new cutters, and little experience, it is going to happen.

Stay safe!

yup

 

[Brians356]

The case mouth can get darn sharp if you overdo the deburring process.

Amen. Key word is "overdo". Whatever angle tool you use, you don't need to create a leather hole punch out of the case.

Look at the lower-right corner illustration below, from Nosler's web site. Far more than 50% of the square end of the neck wall is untouched by the chamfering and deburring:

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...11683593061/Brass-case-mouths.jpg?format=500w

Since most chaps hereabouts size their neck IDs .003" or less under bullet OD, a bevel that creates a "funnel mouth" with a diameter any wider than bullet diameter + .003" is just wasting precious neck wall material.
-

 

[fgregorio]

http://leeprecision.com/universal-case-expanding-die.html

I use this die instead of/ as well as chamfering. it flares the case mouth giving the most consistent seating pressures Ive ever had.
Makes chamfering an obsolete step in my handloading.
Also by design the distance from the case head to the point where the case mouth engages the projectile is also absolutely consistent.
Even with vld chamferers there were copper residues viewed with a mag glass.
With this die you get a rounded flare which means that the projectile bearing surface seats at a tangent angle to the case mouth walls.
Reduced my runout down to an average below 1.5 thou at all times.
I can tell you guys how I adjusted if you like