copper fouling
- Thread starter josebd
- Start date
My Savage barrels shoot great but I must admit it took 75-100 rounds to break in my .223 barrel. In comparison my Les Baer .264 LBC AR barrel took 7 rounds! KG Products solvents will make your life easier with the shoot one, clean, shoot one...... Search "barrel break in" and you will see its basically clean every shot until it stays clean then go to every three, five, ten etc. J-B bore scrub may speed up the progress if your in a hurry but I use the break in rounds while hunting if its accurate enough. Don't forget a bore guide and coated rod while cleaning, your trying to make it better not worse!
I had a Ruger Ranch Rifle custom barreled and the smith insisted that his break in method be used.
He suggested getting 3 Boresnakes. One for copper solvent, one with the brush section wrapped with 4-0 steel wool, coated with JB borecleaner and a third one left clean. After 3 shots, one pass with the copper cleaner Boresnake, followed by 3 passes with the steel wool/JB Boresnake, followed by the clean Boresnake. I did that with this gun, a .223 and am amazed how easy it cleans up and how good the barrel looks thru the Hawkeye borescope.
I'm now breaking in a new Brux, .22-204 and an using that same process. It's easier to use at the range, IMHO, than rods and cleaners, and seems faster.
DF
He suggested getting 3 Boresnakes. One for copper solvent, one with the brush section wrapped with 4-0 steel wool, coated with JB borecleaner and a third one left clean. After 3 shots, one pass with the copper cleaner Boresnake, followed by 3 passes with the steel wool/JB Boresnake, followed by the clean Boresnake. I did that with this gun, a .223 and am amazed how easy it cleans up and how good the barrel looks thru the Hawkeye borescope.
I'm now breaking in a new Brux, .22-204 and an using that same process. It's easier to use at the range, IMHO, than rods and cleaners, and seems faster.
DF
Check your local Hardware/Auto stores for liquid graphite. Used for lubricating locks and keyholes.
Lock-Ease is one of the most common/oldest brands but there are others. Avoid the sprays if at all possible.
Once you aquire such a product test it on a piece of metal to estimate its drying time. Some dry rapidly, some not at all. It depends on the "carrier" the graphite is suspended in.
Clean your barrel to spotless and coat the bore with liquid graphite with a loose patch. If your particular brand is non drying run another patch through.
Assuming no bore scope you'll need to evaluate your coating effectivness by looking down the muzzle.
You want a heavy coat of graphite but no heavy liquid carrier deposits.
CLEAN THE CHAMBER WITH RUBBING ALCOHOL WITHOUT GETTING EXCESS IN THE BORE.
If you have a non drying formula I'd suggest leaving the gun muzzle down for the night.
Head to the range and shoot. Bring your cleaning equipment if you like but lock them in the vehicle.
You should be amazed.
From that point on stop cleaning down to bare metal unless required. The correct powder carbon is one of the most effective barriers between bullet and bore to control copper fouling. Some powders leave to little. Some too much.
If thats not enough buy a lb of Win-748. Can be a pain to create consistent accuracy loads but in my expierience its the perfect fouling condition for the 204R. During the course of a years shooting I'll run a dry patch down the bore of my Sav 204's to get the humidity crud out. If its been humid and they've been sitting. Thats it. Stainless barrels of course. Chrome moly is another world. 500,600,700 rds accuracy remains consistent simply because the fouling remains consistent.
During the winter i'll clean em good just out of shame. Usually.
Lock-Ease is one of the most common/oldest brands but there are others. Avoid the sprays if at all possible.
Once you aquire such a product test it on a piece of metal to estimate its drying time. Some dry rapidly, some not at all. It depends on the "carrier" the graphite is suspended in.
Clean your barrel to spotless and coat the bore with liquid graphite with a loose patch. If your particular brand is non drying run another patch through.
Assuming no bore scope you'll need to evaluate your coating effectivness by looking down the muzzle.
You want a heavy coat of graphite but no heavy liquid carrier deposits.
CLEAN THE CHAMBER WITH RUBBING ALCOHOL WITHOUT GETTING EXCESS IN THE BORE.
If you have a non drying formula I'd suggest leaving the gun muzzle down for the night.
Head to the range and shoot. Bring your cleaning equipment if you like but lock them in the vehicle.
You should be amazed.
From that point on stop cleaning down to bare metal unless required. The correct powder carbon is one of the most effective barriers between bullet and bore to control copper fouling. Some powders leave to little. Some too much.
If thats not enough buy a lb of Win-748. Can be a pain to create consistent accuracy loads but in my expierience its the perfect fouling condition for the 204R. During the course of a years shooting I'll run a dry patch down the bore of my Sav 204's to get the humidity crud out. If its been humid and they've been sitting. Thats it. Stainless barrels of course. Chrome moly is another world. 500,600,700 rds accuracy remains consistent simply because the fouling remains consistent.
During the winter i'll clean em good just out of shame. Usually.
For a gun that tends to copper foul, try the Dyna Tek bore treatment. The kit is available from Brownell's. John Barsness likes this treatment and wrote about it.
I treated a .240 Wby. and it cleans up great. This past weekend, I shot about a box of fast moving reloads. When I got back to my shop, I ran a couple of patches of Boretech Eliminator thru the barrel, with some time to desolve the copper. The barrel thru the Hawkeye borescope looks great. Very easy to clean, post treatment.
For a heavily copper fouled bore, try Wipe Out with the accelerator. I cleaned a 7mm Rem Mag for a friend. There was so much copper, you could see it at the muzzle. One treatment with Wipe Out and the copper was gone, verified by the Hawkeye.
DF
I treated a .240 Wby. and it cleans up great. This past weekend, I shot about a box of fast moving reloads. When I got back to my shop, I ran a couple of patches of Boretech Eliminator thru the barrel, with some time to desolve the copper. The barrel thru the Hawkeye borescope looks great. Very easy to clean, post treatment.
For a heavily copper fouled bore, try Wipe Out with the accelerator. I cleaned a 7mm Rem Mag for a friend. There was so much copper, you could see it at the muzzle. One treatment with Wipe Out and the copper was gone, verified by the Hawkeye.
DF
I have to disagree with those who say it is not necessary to get your bore clean as possible and also with anyone who purports to be able to tell when a barrel is really and truly clean-- and who does not check it with a borescope.
In the first place, we all know, or at least should know, that accuracy will fall off at some point due to fouling. What we do not know is what amount of fouling in any given barrel will cause the decrease in accuracy. If we start with a squeaky clean barrel, we have some chance of finding out. If we just sorta kinda halfass clean the bore we know diddly squat. Do you really want to risk the next group of the match because you are too lazy to clean the barrel between every relay?
As a firm believer in taking advantage of new technology as it is PROVEN, I have bought a few new items since 1964. One is a cell phone, another is a digital watch, and another is a borescope. If you are not using a borescope to look at your barrel to check fouling or wear, you are not SERIOUS about your shooting and you have no idea of what's going on inside your barrel, PERIOD end of discussion, The only discussion defensible from there is that you think borescopes are prohibitively expensive. That is untrue. A company called Vision Optics markets several affordable fiber optic borescopes that give you a VERY accurate picture of the inside of your scope. There is no excuse for not having a borescope these days. False copper indications on a patch can be due to the use of brass in the jag. An all clear indication on your patch means as much as a politician's promise.
Thank you I now step off the soapbox.
In the first place, we all know, or at least should know, that accuracy will fall off at some point due to fouling. What we do not know is what amount of fouling in any given barrel will cause the decrease in accuracy. If we start with a squeaky clean barrel, we have some chance of finding out. If we just sorta kinda halfass clean the bore we know diddly squat. Do you really want to risk the next group of the match because you are too lazy to clean the barrel between every relay?
As a firm believer in taking advantage of new technology as it is PROVEN, I have bought a few new items since 1964. One is a cell phone, another is a digital watch, and another is a borescope. If you are not using a borescope to look at your barrel to check fouling or wear, you are not SERIOUS about your shooting and you have no idea of what's going on inside your barrel, PERIOD end of discussion, The only discussion defensible from there is that you think borescopes are prohibitively expensive. That is untrue. A company called Vision Optics markets several affordable fiber optic borescopes that give you a VERY accurate picture of the inside of your scope. There is no excuse for not having a borescope these days. False copper indications on a patch can be due to the use of brass in the jag. An all clear indication on your patch means as much as a politician's promise.
Thank you I now step off the soapbox.
I'd have to say its not that shooters don't know whats going on inside thier barrel but more they don't know they should know 
Therefor they pay little attention.
Borescopes might be nice but not entirely required.
My comp guns run all season without cleaning.
Its about choosing the correct powder to allow that to happen.
In the PPC for instance N-133, h-322 XBR are no shows.
They shoot best with clean bores
Ramshot X-terminator and HBN coated pills is the ticket. 5,6, 700 rds without loosing accuracy.
Same goes for the 6BR with 68gn pills.
One of the fun shoots I attend may require 100 rds down the barrel with little time for swabbing.
To win in such an environment one needs to learn some lessons or just get lucky. Just lucky is rare.
I know exactly whats going on inside my barrels without a borescope.
Simply because early on I discovered whats happening in the fouling department has absolutely Everything to do with accuracy or lack thereof and paid strict attention to what the bore was telling me.
Its a subject rarely discussed on internet forums which to me implies not many are paying attention.
Therefor they pay little attention.Borescopes might be nice but not entirely required.
My comp guns run all season without cleaning.
Its about choosing the correct powder to allow that to happen.
In the PPC for instance N-133, h-322 XBR are no shows.
They shoot best with clean bores
Ramshot X-terminator and HBN coated pills is the ticket. 5,6, 700 rds without loosing accuracy.
Same goes for the 6BR with 68gn pills.
One of the fun shoots I attend may require 100 rds down the barrel with little time for swabbing.
To win in such an environment one needs to learn some lessons or just get lucky. Just lucky is rare.
I know exactly whats going on inside my barrels without a borescope.
Simply because early on I discovered whats happening in the fouling department has absolutely Everything to do with accuracy or lack thereof and paid strict attention to what the bore was telling me.
Its a subject rarely discussed on internet forums which to me implies not many are paying attention.
amazon has a pro vision scope for $140 that will fit in 6mm bores. I just ordered one, see how that goes.
woolenmammoth said:
I can think of at least 800 reasons for not having a borescope. $800, that is, for the Hawkeye thru Brownells. I don't know about the other brands, but can state that the Hawkeye is a quality instrument and, now that I have one, I'd feel lost without it.
I'll not throw rocks at those without a borescope, but if you ever use one, you'll have to have one. Just that simple.
I borrowed one and now I have one. And it wasn't easy putting that much money into something that won't shoot.
DF
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.