contaminated powder from factory?

[Webster]

hey guys i just got back from shooting some 243Win loads i had worked up with 95 gr berger classic hunters and h4831sc. loads were 41gr to 45gr. Heres the odd part, i fired one and it felt like a slow push and sounded like 2 shots really close to each other, i stopped and looked at all three bays at our range and i was the only one at the range. so i figured i must have bumped my ammo box or some thing. I fire a second shot and same thing. so i stopped and double checked everything. i dont know what was going on but i stopped and went home and checked everyting and everything checked out good. this is a new batch of powder and i have only loaded these 243win cases and a few 270 win. when i shot the 270 win they had a delayed fire and i contributed it to the new "primer friendly" case lube i was trying. the 243 were new brass that had no lube on them and the primers are working fine with my imr 4350. Did i get a bad bottle of powder? both rounds were loaded at min load and flattened both primers out. Has anybody ever gotten contaminated powder or anything like that? im calling Hodgon on monday to see what could be going on. And yes when i opened it the seal was on and there was a bit of "air" in the bottle pushing the seal up, i did smell the powder and it has a very light sweet smell to it. I opened up my other bottles of H4831sc from a diffrent lot and they have the classic ether smell.

Last summer I had hang fires. Turns out I was pressing to hard when seating the primers. They had rounded edges and looked OK. I must have been crushing the anvil too far into the primer charge. With a digital caliper I measured how far the priming push pin protruded above the shell holder with the handle against the Lee priming tool body. It protruded way beyond what was necessary to seat a primer. After trial adjustments of the tool and seating feel I came up with a much better adjustment. Have not had a hang fire or no-fire since adjustment. The pin protrusion needs to be equal to the height of the primer cup plus how far it needs to be pushed in.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Another possible culprit that would compound the problem is setting the shoulders back too far creating excessive headspace.

I'd have to say this is incorrect. Otherwise I would expect to experience the same thing when fire forming Ackley shoulders on cases while firing bullets. I have never heard a double bang when forming shoulders while load testing/fire forming with any cartridges that require it from the parent case.

It's probably bad powder or primers. I'd imagine the powder is hang firing.

Not sure how the OP is getting 'primer friendly case lube' on the primers. Why in the world would a person lube the primers? Though it shouldn't matter since modern primers are sealed.

Otherwise it's probably a fast echo off the concrete that he's mistaking for a double bang

 

[LHSmith]

I'd have to say this is incorrect. Otherwise I would expect to experience the same thing when fire forming Ackley shoulders on cases while firing bullets. I have never heard a double bang when forming shoulders while load testing/fire forming with any cartridges that require it from the parent case.

It's probably bad powder or primers. I'd imagine the powder is hang firing.

Not sure how the OP is getting 'primer friendly case lube' on the primers. Why in the world would a person lube the primers? Though it shouldn't matter since modern primers are sealed.

Otherwise it's probably a fast echo off the concrete that he's mistaking for a double bang

I said "compound" the problem......i.e. in conjuction with primers not fully seated too much headspace will exasperate the problem. The FP energy will be deterred by having to move both the primer AND the cartridge forward creating a time lag.
Besides the Ackley Improved cartridges are designed for the parent case to still have contact at the neck/shoulder junction in order to FF safely and consistently to AI dimensions.

 

[Mtstalker]

Im shooting off a wood bench in a flat area covered in grass, and when i lube cases its done in bags and then tumbled or ultrasonic cleaned. I just thought maybe there was residual. What gets me is the smell of the powder.

 

[JohnKielly]

You're concerned at the smell of the powder so check with Hodgdon. They will know the manufacture/distribution date of a batch of powder.

 

[Macropod]

Check with Hodgdon.

ADI produces some (most?) of their powders. I have an issue with a batch of BM8208 which is marketed in the US as XBR8208 I think. It's like it is too fast and pressures are higher yet 60fps slower than the previous lot I was using. A lot dirtier too.

Previous batches have been excellent but this lot seems bad. I am not the only one to notice it either. I guess it is possible a dodgy batch got through. Supposedly a premium powder...

 

[Ledd Slinger]

I said "compound" the problem......i.e. in conjuction with primers not fully seated too much headspace will exasperate the problem. The FP energy will be deterred by having to move both the primer AND the cartridge forward creating a time lag.
Besides the Ackley Improved cartridges are designed for the parent case to still have contact at the neck/shoulder junction in order to FF safely and consistently to AI dimensions.

Agree to disagree. Ever formed a dasher type case? Where's the design for contact on that neck/shoulder junction? Nuff said.

I honestly hate posts like this where the OP does minimal work to identify the problem before asking all kinds of questions. He could have easily tried a different powder and/or primer and figured it out himself. How the heck are we supposed to know if the powder is bad over the internet? Call Hodgdon or try a different bottle! I shouldn't have even posted on this one...

 

[LHSmith]

Agree to disagree. Ever formed a dasher type case? Where's the design for contact on that neck/shoulder junction? Nuff said.

Either the bullet, a false shoulder, or a stepped neck.....each method has a means to stop forward movement of the case.

 

[Mtstalker]

Called hodgdon and they are sending a new bottle and im sending the old one in. They said it should not smell the way it does. Ledd Slinger this same brass and bullet combo and primers had been used with h4350 and imr 4350 with no ill factors. I joined this forum to be able to ask questions and recive answers from knowledgeable people. Im sorry i wasnt born will all the knowlege that you have. I didnt have a mentor to teach me these things im learning as i go.

 

[WyleWD]

Called hodgdon and they are sending a new bottle and im sending the old one in. They said it should not smell the way it does. Ledd Slinger this same brass and bullet combo and primers had been used with h4350 and imr 4350 with no ill factors. I joined this forum to be able to ask questions and recive answers from knowledgeable people. Im sorry i wasnt born will all the knowlege that you have. I didnt have a mentor to teach me these things im learning as i go.

Great that Hodgdon is working with you on it. Please let us know what they have to say about it. Probably a bum lot or bottle of powder since the primers worked fine with the 4350's that you shot.

Lesson here is that some will tell you to mix a new lot of powder with the old lot in order to dilute or lessen any changes in burn rate etc...... test the new lot first, and if it works, then maybe mix it with the old lot. JMHO.

Good luck and again, let us know how this plays out. WD

 

[LHSmith]

+1 Yes, please report back.

 

[Mtstalker]

I wrote the lot number down. They said that there intrested to see whats going on with it and that they would test. Hopefully i can get the scoop once its been tested. If i can ill post it.

 

[WyleWD]

I wrote the lot number down. They said that there intrested to see whats going on with it and that they would test. Hopefully i can get the scoop once its been tested. If i can ill post it.

Not to pry, but would you care to share the lot number with us in the event that someone on here has the same lot so as to check for the same or similar issues?? Thanks. WD

 

[Mtstalker]

1032216 are the first row of numbers then 5527 is directly below.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Called hodgdon and they are sending a new bottle and im sending the old one in. They said it should not smell the way it does. Ledd Slinger this same brass and bullet combo and primers had been used with h4350 and imr 4350 with no ill factors. I joined this forum to be able to ask questions and recive answers from knowledgeable people. Im sorry i wasnt born will all the knowlege that you have. I didnt have a mentor to teach me these things im learning as i go.

Stopp, you did nothing wrong here, just asked a question. First rule of thumb on a forum is being able to sort useful info from posts where guys just want to flap. You keyed on smell in the op, you always eliminate things one at a time, not 4-5 and never find the problem but manage to eliminate it. Also, every loading manual in existence says if powder doesn't smell like another bottle of the same, you may have issues.

 

[Milo 2.0]

Also on your issue, you say you started at 41gr of H4831, it's a slow powder and your double click or bang may have been hangfires, not enough of the slow burning powder in the case. Even Hodgdon data center says to start at 42gr for a 95gr bullet. Tackle the powder issue, then move to this.

 

[Mtstalker]

I double checked and at 45 grs it shows 100% fill. At 41 it should be about 90% if im thinking right. I read somewhere that with the slower burning powders a compressed load is optimal for proper burn. Dont know if its true because everything on the internet is true.

 

[Milo 2.0]

I double checked and at 45 grs it shows 100% fill. At 41 it should be about 90% if im thinking right. I read somewhere that with the slower burning powders a compressed load is optimal for proper burn. Dont know if its true because everything on the internet is true.

Fill ratio is something I fail to look at, buy a Berger loading manual, I'd say most of their data is legit.
http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/rifle
Here's ^^a web based site also, they list powder as slow as H1000 for your application, at some point, you need to make your own conclusions and not rely on wives tales from the web. Find a mentor that's close.

 

[JRS]

I'd have to say this is incorrect. Otherwise I would expect to experience the same thing when fire forming Ackley shoulders on cases while firing bullets. I have never heard a double bang when forming shoulders while load testing/fire forming with any cartridges that require it from the parent case.

It's probably bad powder or primers. I'd imagine the powder is hang firing.

Not sure how the OP is getting 'primer friendly case lube' on the primers. Why in the world would a person lube the primers? Though it shouldn't matter since modern primers are sealed.

Otherwise it's probably a fast echo off the concrete that he's mistaking for a double bang

Sounds as though your barrel was not properly chambered for the AI cartridge.

 

[Mtstalker]

The load was right out of my berger manual.