Confused-pistol failed during competition

[Steve K]

I just purchased a Sig/Hammerli Trailside to use for NRA Outdoor Competition. I received it two days before the match, but wanted to use it. I zeroed it with TAC22 and Aguila SV. I fired 300 rounds on one day and practiced with 200 rounds on Friday; the match was Saturday. I started at the mover got one round off and had a failure to feed. Started over and got two shots before the same thing. After the match I loaded four magazines and fired them without a problem. Same mags, same ammo, Aguila, and same gun. I can't figure out why I had that hiccup. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Steve

 

[Twdmar]

If it was gonna let you down, that's exactly when it would do it, right?
Did you clean it before the match? It could have been a bad round that let you down by leaving some junk in the chamber or a piece of lint or who knows. Unfortunately 22lr pistols are often finicky. Some of mine have usually liked to run pretty wet with lube other only work with one ammo. Perhaps the cycling after it crapped out on you moved enough lube where it needed to be to get it running again.

 

[D-4297]

Nothing to offer on your issue , but I grew up watching my Dad shoot a High Standard in competition for years , without ever a issue . Think it was called "Bullseye" back then . Five Ohio Governor's Cups , and a few Natl. Championships . And He was fanatical about cleaning that pistol . Even between relays , if time allowed . Don't even know if they still make that gun today .

 

[SweaterDood]

Nothing to offer on your issue , but I grew up watching my Dad shoot a High Standard in competition for years , without ever a issue . Think it was called "Bullseye" back then . Five Ohio Governor's Cups , and a few Natl. Championships . And He was fanatical about cleaning that pistol . Even between relays , if time allowed . Don't even know if they still make that gun today .

They don’t still make the High Standards, unfortunately.

.22lr by nature is a very dirty burning cartridge. Low pressure, small charge, low velocity, coated/exposed lead bullets, etc. all contribute to this. Definitely start to work on a good cleaning regimen if you have not already. That Trailside is a pretty serious precision/competition pistol and will have really tight tolerances and a match chamber, compared to most other rimfire pistols, even some particularly “accurate” ones. Buckmarks, 22/45s, Victory’s, Mark I-IVs, etc. are not in the same league as this or the other high end match pistols and have more focus on reliability than supreme accuracy.

I do not own any target pistols of this caliber, as speed is more important than absolute precision for what I do, but I do know a bit about them from some of the guys I shoot with. Because you mentioned shooting Tac22 and later Aguila, are you feeding both coated lead bullets and jacketed/plated bullets through this pistol? If so, that is something that should be diligently avoided. It will expedite fouling and cause all sorts of issues, and will ruin a very nice pistol if done too much (any barrel really).

If so - Copper wool (ChoreBoy, brand name) around a nylon brush and scrub dry (no solvent). Then go through the normal solvent routine for cleaning. Follow with Iosso or JB bore paste. A few more of the solvent/dry patches. Quick scrub of Iosso/JB. Patch out one more time. You should never need to do this again, if you switch to coated lead only (again, highly advised for a Hammerli pistol).

If not - likely a piece of crud got somewhere it shouldn’t have. A good breakdown clean every 1,000rds or so, and quick cleans every 1-200rds is a good rule of thumb. Be sparing with lube, it attracts crud as a side-effect, undermining its own usefulness. Wilson Combat has a very good video on how/where to lube pistols, if needed. They use a 1911, of course, but it applies across the board.

Another note:
Number/color/something to identify your magazines. When you have a failure. Note which magazine and how many rounds (full, middle, last 1-2rds, will be good enough for failures during a match). This way you can go back to a log book or match booklets and look for trends with particular magazines.

 

[JEFFPPC]

They don’t still make the High Standards, unfortunately.

.22lr by nature is a very dirty burning cartridge. Low pressure, small charge, low velocity, coated/exposed lead bullets, etc. all contribute to this. Definitely start to work on a good cleaning regimen if you have not already. That Trailside is a pretty serious precision/competition pistol and will have really tight tolerances and a match chamber, compared to most other rimfire pistols, even some particularly “accurate” ones. Buckmarks, 22/45s, Victory’s, Mark I-IVs, etc. are not in the same league as this or the other high end match pistols and have more focus on reliability than supreme accuracy.

I do not own any target pistols of this caliber, as speed is more important than absolute precision for what I do, but I do know a bit about them from some of the guys I shoot with. Because you mentioned shooting Tac22 and later Aguila, are you feeding both coated lead bullets and jacketed/plated bullets through this pistol? If so, that is something that should be diligently avoided. It will expedite fouling and cause all sorts of issues, and will ruin a very nice pistol if done too much (any barrel really).

If so - Copper wool (ChoreBoy, brand name) around a nylon brush and scrub dry (no solvent). Then go through the normal solvent routine for cleaning. Follow with Iosso or JB bore paste. A few more of the solvent/dry patches. Quick scrub of Iosso/JB. Patch out one more time. You should never need to do this again, if you switch to coated lead only (again, highly advised for a Hammerli pistol).

If not - likely a piece of crud got somewhere it shouldn’t have. A good breakdown clean every 1,000rds or so, and quick cleans every 1-200rds is a good rule of thumb. Be sparing with lube, it attracts crud as a side-effect, undermining its own usefulness. Wilson Combat has a very good video on how/where to lube pistols, if needed. They use a 1911, of course, but it applies across the board.

Another note:
Number/color/something to identify your magazines. When you have a failure. Note which magazine and how many rounds (full, middle, last 1-2rds, will be good enough for failures during a match). This way you can go back to a log book or match booklets and look for trends with particular magazines.

You can still buy a new handbuilt High Standard. A fellow in Texas bought them out and their tooling, several models available. There is a site on the web.

 

[mongo chicago]

Since everything was fine before and after the match, my guess is it was a shooter induced problem.

 

[Steve K]

Both ammo were lead, I shot the Aguila last for practice and again for competition, I cleaned the chamber only, and brushed the bolt face, all mags functioned before and after the match. I'm inclined to agree with mongo chicago. The grandkids are visiting so I haven't had a chance to try again, but I will clean the pistol first.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[SweaterDood]

You can still buy a new handbuilt High Standard. A fellow in Texas bought them out and their tooling, several models available. There is a site on the web.

Was not aware. Will have to check into this. Thanks.

 

[Steve Blair]

Look for somebody named Murphy in the match roster. You know he was there.

 

[Twdmar]

Both ammo were lead, I shot the Aguila last for practice and again for competition, I cleaned the chamber only, and brushed the bolt face, all mags functioned before and after the match. I'm inclined to agree with mongo chicago. The grandkids are visiting so I haven't had a chance to try again, but I will clean the pistol first.
Thanks for the suggestions.

3-400 rds is a lot for a semi auto pistol to run without a cleaning, it's not a marlin model 60. You'll have to figure out the cleaning schedule to learn what works for it.

 

[Steve K]

I just fired 200 rounds of TAC 22, 100, and Aguila, 100 rounds. Same everything as at the match, but it all worked without a hitch. Somehow it must have been operator error. I haven't cleaned the gun yet.
Thanks for all the comments.
Steve

 

[Medic505]

Steve,
Pay close attention to the angle the ammo is loaded into the mag. It should all be angled with the rider of the magazine. Sounds silly I know, but if you get a couple out of alinement, it will cause failure to feed. This was pointed out in reviews of the new Sig 322. I've had the same problems you are having and since I've started paying attention to ammo angle in the magazine, those issues have disappeared.

 

[Steve K]

Thanks for the heads up. I did consider that issue and tapped each mag today, but did not do that at the match. It works.

 

[Nantan]

I just purchased a Sig/Hammerli Trailside to use for NRA Outdoor Competition. I received it two days before the match, but wanted to use it. I zeroed it with TAC22 and Aguila SV. I fired 300 rounds on one day and practiced with 200 rounds on Friday; the match was Saturday. I started at the mover got one round off and had a failure to feed. Started over and got two shots before the same thing. After the match I loaded four magazines and fired them without a problem. Same mags, same ammo, Aguila, and same gun. I can't figure out why I had that hiccup. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Steve

Not sure why, but if you want to sell the Hammerli....I'll buy it!
Nantan

 

[Richard Jones]

Riding the slide? Limp wristing?

 

[whatsupdoc]

I would try shooting different ammo, I have a Sig P226 in 22LR and it hated Aguila
ammo.

 

[JMA]

I shoot local bullseye matches some times with S&W m41's [witch are notorious for being ammo finicky]
people will have reliability problem they can't fix and it came down to they developed a light grip and tightening their hold fixed the issue.

 

[DirtySteve]

Thumb may have been dragging on the slide..

 

[Steve K]

I don't use the Trailside for AP anymore. I found the Buck Mark works very well for me. I may have been dragging the slide since I use the pistol for Bullseye now and do not have a problem. I also use target grips and shoot with one hand.
Nantan: If you are looking for the newer pistol, Xesses, PSA has it on sale for $600.

 

[troupe]

Clean it and don't be afraid to lube it. Forget the idea's of a drop of oil here and there. Lube it good and it will run. It is a machine and needs lubed. Dirty old 22 ammo.