Competition, Brass, Barrels, Actions and Dollars

[Lifesfordeath]

Hello guys,

Few questions I've recently had on my mind before I decide to delve deeper into f/tr

Watched F class john share some prep for nationals and he had something like 700 rounds or so he loaded for the match.

Please excuse my ignorance...yet again!

1. I hear people say that typically it takes 2 or 3 firings to properly form the brass to your chamber...so let's say 700 pieces of brass fired twice = 1400 rds on a new barrel. Am I over thinking this or do guys actually go to these big matches with brass that really isn't at it's full potential?

Otherwise the barrel is nearly shot out before the brass is ready for reloading

2. If said brass is used for 10 firings (give or take) 700 pieces would yield close to 7000 rounds enough for 3 or 4 barrels...are you guys comfortable FL sizing and then reusing the brass in another rifle without fear of losing its life span or accuracy or other issues?

3. Would you feel comfortable using or sharing the same brass in a rifle that's chambered with the same action manufacturer and reamer in a back up rifle? (Hoping my son joins me one day)

Granted I'll probably never shoot to the caliber of paying the entry fee to Nats but if I buy 3-400 pieces of brass for my rifle I would have a hard time loading them 4 times and throwing them all in the trash with the shot out barrel....

 

[Falfan2017]

I just use 75 or 150 pieces of brass per barrel and resize and reload at night during the match.
if you have the same reamer and 3-4 barrels all done with the same reamer then yeah no reason not to keep using the brass.

 

[Bc'z]

I to am just getting my feet wet at the club level.
What I've learned through my experience is you can shoot a competitive load on new brass.
My best on new brass was 199-14x, load can be adjusted after subsequent firing.

 

[JimSC]

I am just a babe in the woods here and certainly not a gunsmith but I started with Savages and Big Horn actions which use a barrel nut system and I set the headspace myself. By using the same GO and No GO gages and procedures I have never had a problem swapping cases between barrels. Custom built rifles and factory rifles are a entirely different ballgame. Even different gage manufacturers can use slightly different dimensions from what I have read. At minimum fire a new case in the new barrel, set my dies up to that case and do some careful measuring and comparing of the old and new before proceeding.

 

[BoydAllen]

A good smith can hit his numbers with no problem. If it is a problem, get another smith. The ones that I use will measure the action the first time, and all that I have to do is have the barrel maker sent them the barrel, let them know how I want it cut (How much shank, the length, and the weight I need to stay under) and they can chamber it and send it to me with no issues. Generally I buy a reamer to the specs that I want early on in the rifle planning, that way the same set of dies will fit all the barrels.

 

[Ned Ludd]

You don't have to do everything at once. Take your time and learn as you go what works and what doesn't. Properly prepared virgin brass can shoot exceedingly well; it's great for club matches. That said, most serious F-TR competitors will bring a well-developed load in fire-formed brass to more important matches. There is, however, no hard and fast rule that says it absolutely must be fire-formed two, three times, or more. Even once-fired brass will be matched up to the chamber far better than virgin brass. As you continue to compete, you may be surprised how quickly you burn out the current barrel. When you do, hang on to it...you will then have a fire-forming barrel so you don't have burn the next one out fire-forming brass.

With a typical .223 Rem or .308 F-TR chamber, about the only chamber dimension other than headspace that ever changes enough to be worth talking about is the freebore length, which is not a specification regulated in F-TR rifles, per se. Brass fired in almost any typical F-TR chamber will be a much closer fit to the chamber in a different rifle [or a new barrel on the same rifle] than is almost any virgin brass, even if it's not quite as good a fit as brass fire-formed in that specific rifle [barrel]. If you wear out a barrel and the brass still has several firings or more life left in it, keep firing it in the new barrel. If you like, you can treat the first firing in the new barrel as being analogous to virgin brass; that is, use it in club matches only until it has all been fire-formed in the new chamber. 60,000 psi chamber pressure does a remarkable job forming a malleable metal such as brass.

The main thing to remember is to have fun. That's what keeps you coming back. In this day and age, there is no need to waste valuable components, especially if you are competing primarily at the local level. Use what you have, and get the most out of it. If and when the time comes that you are competing at a much higher level, there may be things you want to do at that point so that you aren't leaving even the tiniest scrap on the table. In the meantime, you will be learning more about what works and what doesn't every time you participate in a match, so that as your skill level improves, so will your ability to decide/choose to what level you need/want to take the reloading process.

 

[std7mag]

So, you get virgin brass.
Upon opening the package, you first inspect the cases, and run them through a F/L die.
Load & fire.
Then come home, clean the cases and...
Run them through your F/L die...
Check trim & load.

Your cases are not staying at the chamber size after running through the die. So theoretically you can use them in a different rifle.

I still segregate mine though.

 

[Fuj]

Find a cheap action, and a barrel you don't care about. Chamber
that crap barrel with your match reamer, and now you have a
dedicated fire forming rig where round count don't matter.
Doing one for one of my wild cats using a Savage Axis action.

 

[Lifesfordeath]

You don't have to do everything at once. Take your time and learn as you go what works and what doesn't. Properly prepared virgin brass can shoot exceedingly well; it's great for club matches. That said, most serious F-TR competitors will bring a well-developed load in fire-formed brass to more important matches. There is, however, no hard and fast rule that says it absolutely must be fire-formed two, three times, or more. Even once-fired brass will be matched up to the chamber far better than virgin brass. As you continue to compete, you may be surprised how quickly you burn out the current barrel. When you do, hang on to it...you will then have a fire-forming barrel so you don't have burn the next one out fire-forming brass.

With a typical .223 Rem or .308 F-TR chamber, about the only chamber dimension other than headspace that ever changes enough to be worth talking about is the freebore length, which is not a specification regulated in F-TR rifles, per se. Brass fired in almost any typical F-TR chamber will be a much closer fit to the chamber in a different rifle [or a new barrel on the same rifle] than is almost any virgin brass, even if it's not quite as good a fit as brass fire-formed in that specific rifle [barrel]. If you wear out a barrel and the brass still has several firings or more life left in it, keep firing it in the new barrel. If you like, you can treat the first firing in the new barrel as being analogous to virgin brass; that is, use it in club matches only until it has all been fire-formed in the new chamber. 60,000 psi chamber pressure does a remarkable job forming a malleable metal such as brass.

The main thing to remember is to have fun. That's what keeps you coming back. In this day and age, there is no need to waste valuable components, especially if you are competing primarily at the local level. Use what you have, and get the most out of it. If and when the time comes that you are competing at a much higher level, there may be things you want to do at that point so that you aren't leaving even the tiniest scrap on the table. In the meantime, you will be learning more about what works and what doesn't every time you participate in a match, so that as your skill level improves, so will your ability to decide/choose to what level you need/want to take the reloading process.

Thank you very much for your detailed response...guess I was making it harder than it needed to be and stressing a little bit as funds can be tight sometimes

 

[JMayo]

This isn't a cheap sport.
10k can get you started in competitive competition.
3k + a year will keep you seriously in supplies and shooting matches.

Of course you can play at it if that's what you want.
I ask myself wth i spend what i spend for those pieces of wood ....

 

[Lifesfordeath]

This isn't a cheap sport.
10k can get you started in competitive competition.
3k + a year will keep you seriously in supplies and shooting matches.

Of course you can play at it if that's what you want.
I ask myself wth i spend what i spend for those pieces of wood ....

No problem dabbling, shooting and reloading is really my main hobby, have a decent rifle plenty of powder and primers for a couple seasons along with verything else needed to shoot and reload.

Originally posted just to be sure I didn't throw anymore money away on components when it may not truly be needed in doing so.

Boy if they gave out t-shirts for winners instead of wood and plastic could you imagine the chaos??

 

[divingin]

Granted I'll probably never shoot to the caliber of paying the entry fee to Nats but if I buy 3-400 pieces of brass for my rifle I would have a hard time loading them 4 times and throwing them all in the trash with the shot out barrel....

Caveat: I'm not a competitor.

Brass, figure what, a buck a piece? Primers are running $50-100 per thousand right now. A 40 grain powder charge is nearly a quarter. Barrel blank is close to $400, plus chambering and mounting. Add in any range fees and target costs, and the cost for new brass sort of pales.

That said, just because one person does something (no matter how good they are) doesn't mean you have to. I shoot my brass until it physically doesn't work anymore (my short range 6BR brass, using fairly mild loads, lasted 26 firings - retired when that barrel was pulled, but they still shot well. And they're still available if I decide to shoot the old barrel again.)

Would I be competitive doing that? Probably not, but you could remove the old brass, and I probably still wouldn't have been competitive. So there's that as well.

Shoot, learn, have fun.

 

[Jennb]

I develop a load for virgin brass and compete with it, then change to my regular load on the reload. All my barrels are chambered with the same reamer by the same gunsmith so the brass just goes from one barrel to the next. Since I shoot .308 in ftr then brass last quite a long time. I shoot them until the primer pockets get loose. Currently shooting some brass with 15 firings.