competing in Fclass with electronic targets

[RickRusty]

I have heard

Be careful who you're listening to. Please. That's just rumor stuff.

 

[Heman]

Then Rusty. please put the rumor to rest and tell us all what the system will cost. You have been attacking all of the other systems and stating shortfalls in your mind. However, you have yet to state what your system costs. What does it cost?

 

[Erud]

Then Rusty. please put the rumor to rest and tell us all what the system will cost. You have been attacking all of the other systems and stating shortfalls in your mind. However, you have yet to state what your system costs. What does it cost?

Seems like a reasonable question.

 

[WindSurgeon]

Seems like a reasonable question.

So you and heman need to tell him how many systems and the specification. I don't know any company that publishes their final pricing information in the public realm. They only publish list price. Also, the best prices are usually gained when you sign a non-disclosure agreement. This is the standard for pricing capital equipment.

 

[Erud]

So you and heman need to tell him how many systems and the specification. I don't know any company that publishes their final pricing information in the public realm. They only publish list price. Also, the best prices are usually gained when you sign a non-disclosure agreement. This is the standard for pricing capital equipment.

Ok, but despite all of that, everyone seems to know what SMT targets cost.

 

[Heman]

So you and heman need to tell him how many systems and the specification. I don't know any company that publishes their final pricing information in the public realm. They only publish list price. Also, the best prices are usually gained when you sign a non-disclosure agreement. This is the standard for pricing capital equipment.

Wind Surgeon you are wrong, quit trying to make excuses because you have a very uninformed bias against SMT. SMT states each target is $3,000 a piece. It is on their website. If you call Wayne he will tell you. Now they may have sales, etc. but you know the price.

Again Rusty what is the price of a Hex System?

 

[Berger.Fan222]

Wind Surgeon you are wrong, quit trying to make excuses because you have a very uninformed bias against SMT. SMT states each target is $3,000 a piece. It is on their website. If you call Wayne he will tell you. Now they may have sales, etc. but you know the price.

Again Rusty what is the price of a Hex System?

People selling stuff should be willing to state the price.

Sure, in certain quantities you can cut a deal, or you may be able to negotiate something better, but to sell, sell, sell all the advantages and features without giving a price seems sketchy.

 

[WindSurgeon]

Heman. What makes you think I am biased? My club owns e Targets and I am not a fan of those for Fclass. My only opinion is that e targets are the future. I'm just interested in if they are ready for prime time. As I see it, the 8 sensor system they are developing at lodi is unique and not what everyone has experience with.

Pricing is tricky because you have to be comparing apples to apples. It seams a 4 sensor vs an 8 sensor is apples to oranges.

I guess the big question for you is if a system is $3000 per unit, would you consider it? I dont care what system. What premium would you pay for an 8 sensor system like the unique system at lodi given a large number of firing points?

 

[RickRusty]

If I wanted to buy my own personal hex system, how much would it cost me?

Good Question Keith - We have discussed that over the past plus year. And as a salesman, I hate to say to sincere people like you - Sorry we don't have one. As late as yesterday we spent over an hr with our engineers discussing that possibility. I guess our conclusion is you wouldn't be willing to pay for something that produced average or worse results.
The only way to "cheapen" it up for individuals would be to move the sensors outside the box. That comes with a platoon of problems. It would need a bunch more sensors, and a phenomenal software program to filter noise that we don't want. We can't/won't build one with 4 sensors. NB it takes 3 sensors to give you a co-ordinate. So if one sensor lies to you, you have the average of 1 (one). I would have a hard time, heck I'm not a good enough salesman, to look you in the eye, take you money, and give you something that I know is too inferior.

 

[jkl]

I understand the price battle. 4 vs 8 vs who knows what. What I bought and the 7 others that bought them at Ben Avery was influenced by having to take them down and store them every day that we shoot. Hex didn't fit the requirements of that simple task. The target cannot stay in place. I am happy to say most of the group bought what we thought made sense due to the constraints of the range and was priced within reason. There were many strings fired on a SMT before the 7 were purchased.

I think as SMT refines and moves forward they will make software upgrades so we can put them on our systems. SMT has been very responsive to our questions and problems to date.
Ask Dan Bramley if he is happy with the performance he seems to be able to hold the X ring from time to time. I believe he is shooting Lodi this fall.

John

 

[Heman]

No its not apples to oranges. The G2 is actually 5 sensors, the lower left is a double and the accuracy is pretty good. All I'm saying is if you're going to knock other products and quote that they are inferior or of lower quality etc. as was done in post #149 then you should be able to quote a price of the system.

From an accuracy standpoint the matches I've shot on the SMT so far match the historical scores, plots I've shot on manual tarets.

Rusty, what is the price for a single unit?

 

[MattPeetz]

Be careful who you're listening to. Please. That's just rumor stuff.

Rick
No disrespect meant but at BSWN
I remember you telling me $8,000 range. This is when you were looking for clubs to leave it at to try out. Ours was basically on your way home. Alliance,Ne. Is that not the price of them?
Not attacking but just wondering. At that price tag our club could not afford them.
Thanks

 

[RickRusty]

PRICE - Where do you want it delivered to? East coast, South Coast, West coast or North Dakota? How many lanes, 3 or 32? Do you want it quoted with monitors? Or will you buy them your self? How many batteries do you want to power it up, or will you use 110 V. Have you got techie enough people there to learn to administer the equipment quickly? Or will I need a week there to train? Does the whole club want it, or just a few? How are your cradles built, or do I have to modify my legs? But it's likely considerably less than $8,000 (depending on a volatile exchange rate) for HEX Systems Match-Grade Targets. Proven! R&D's done. Plug and play.

 

[Heman]

Rick
No disrespect meant but at BSWN
I remember you telling me $8,000 range. This is when you were looking for clubs to leave it at to try out. Ours was basically on your way home. Alliance,Ne. Is that not the price of them?
Not attacking but just wondering. At that price tag our club could not afford them.
Thanks

Exactly my point, there is a local shooter Prone high power and smallbore shooter in the Kentucky area who is very accomplished. He either has shot on it, or is very familiar with the system. He emailed me about it shortly before we moved ahead on the SMT targets. The price and talking with people who have shot on the SMTs stating that they work was enough for us to move ahead with the SMTs.

Rusty, let me make this easier for you. Give us the break down of everything you mentioned above. Again what does it cost. As potential customers we need to know what the costs are.

 

[gaboon]

Sounds like the US govt talking above. Can't list a avg price that's equal to the SMT pricing.

 

[Heman]

Here is an email that was forwarded to me earlier this year. I highly doubt the information on cost would have been sent out by the original sender if the values was incorrect. I apologize for low balling the cost. Looks as though as of 12/2/15 the cost for the Hex system was $10,000 a piece.

From: Rick Curtis <imsteelyeyed@gmail.com>
Date: December 2, 2015 at 8:04:23 AM EST
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Subject: Coming Events Newsletter December 2-6, 2015-


Shooters,

This week in shooting heaven we will truly be blessed with some of the best December weather I can remember. With day time highs nearing 80 degrees and mild to moderate winds there's simply no reason not to come out and join in the fun. In shooting news everybody's talking about the HEXTA target system from goBallistic. As I mentioned last week Rick Ratzlaff, President of goBallistic, set up two of his HEXTA targets to demo during our state long range championships this past weekend. The response by the shooters was overwhelmingly positive and the inherent accuracy of the system was so superior to any system I have ever seen before, it was decided to shoot the F-TR shooters on the two targets during the two day competition. The neat thing about this system is that with a few keystrokes and simply hanging the appropriate target face the HEXTA target can instantly support any target dimensions, ie; 200, through 1000 yards without calibrating. Additionally, results can be posted to the web in real time as can be seen by clicking HERE Keep in mind that the system was designed in Canada so the V target is what its based on and Rick was able to get it to show X's but the 10's were shown as V's. He assured me that a minor software tweak back at HQ would resolve that issue. So, what you may ask is keeping me from setting up 80 of these targets and make target pulling a thing of the past on Americas finest year round shooting location, the Middleton Tompkins 1000 yard Range at the Ben Avery Shooting Facility? Well, in a word, cost. Currently the worlds best acoustic target system costs a lot of dollars, 10,000 of them to be exact. Hopefully with some changes in materials and non critical components in the coming months we will see this price drop some and of course when that happens I will be update you all. Here's a couple of pics showing the HEXTA in use

 

[jkl]

I was 1 of the undisclosed recipients on Rick Curtis Email

John

 

[WindSurgeon]

No its not apples to oranges. The G2 is actually 5 sensors, the lower left is a double and the accuracy is pretty good. All I'm saying is if you're going to knock other products and quote that they are inferior or of lower quality etc. as was done in post #149 then you should be able to quote a price of the system.

From an accuracy standpoint the matches I've shot on the SMT so far match the historical scores, plots I've shot on manual tarets.

Rusty, what is the price for a single unit?

I never said anything was inferior. Your read too much into my words. I just want to ensure all is equal. Whatever the number of sensors. And for f class. I think the smt people need to chime in with their internal validation testing so we can all be comfortable with its use in Fclass. If 5 sensors is as good as 4 sensors or 8 sensors then why are they installing 8 sensors at lodi?

 

[Bob Sebold]

Here are some photo's of the setup at Lodi taken today. Some down in pits and a relay that is not yet permanently mounted.

 

[Heman]

Since this thread initially started about Lodi I got this from Adam. I think your accuracy issues with the outside mics are solved. As Adam said, "Think Outside, The Box"

Hi Shawn. I was hoping you would ask.

Now with the 8 mics and new algorithms, we have complete immunity to the effect of incoming angle and wind on the shockwave. Our math is able to measure the location and angle of the shock cone due to angle and wind effects. I have tested this at extreme angles at 25m and today in Lodi at 1000yd and 200yd, and it will be in place at Lodi.

The accuracy of our system in match conditions is second to none - when the sensors are functioning as intended and installed on solid mounts. We are working through issues keeping things running, but the system when working as designed will not randomly miss shots and is very accurate.