collet die? new to reloading

[Md25v]

I'm new to reloading so you'll have to forgive the dumb questions. I've been shooting 1000 yard for almost a year but all the load work and reloading has been done by the guy that was giving me long range lessons. Unfortunately, he passed away a couple weeks ago. His kids don't participate in shooting sports and were nice enough to give me his reloading equipment and one of his .308's built off a custom surgeon action with a leija barrel and nightforce scope. I have read several reloading books online as well as the current issue of the Lyman Reloading Manual I bought from Midway. One thing I can't seem to answer is about using the Lee collet Die. I made some dummy rounds,no powder/primer)using the collet die to make sure they would cycle through my gun. I was about to assemble some ammo to start working up loads but ran out of primers. I went to out to buy primers and ran into a guy at the sporting goods store I knew to reload so I told him about the equipment I came into. He said that in order to use the collet die I first had to use a body die. I could not find anything about that in the Lyman reloading manual. I don't want to assemble anything incorrectly so I was wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction. I have assembled my starting loads by using the collet die then the bullet seating die. Am I supposed to use a third die first? The rounds I made cycle fine in the action but I have not shot any yet. I want to shoot them on Friday and work up a load but obviously I'll wait to see if I need to do anything differently.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Winchester69]

What has you confused is that the Lyman book doesn't explain what you're doing,or not doing) when you neck size. You aren't resizing the case body and bumping the shoulder back. When a case fires, the body grows. When you neck size, you're only reforming the neck to accept another bullet; no other part of the case is affected. When you full-length size, or partial full-length size, you're also reforming the case and pushing the shoulder back. The body die only reforms the case and bumps the shoulder. Its function is complementary to what the neck,collet) die does. Redding makes the body die, but you can do what you need to do with the collet die and a FL die.

Typically, a case is neck sized a few times and then becomes hard to chamber; the bolt is hard-closing. That's when you use the body die to bump the shoulder. These two dies accomplish what a FL die does in one step.

The difference between full-length sizing and partial full-length sizing is in degree. If you set the FL die against the shellholder, you're minimizing the case's dimensions. Adjusting the die down down only enough that, when sized, the case will chamber, you have minimally affected the brass. Typically, the die is set such that the shoulder is only moved back a thousandth or two. Redding makes their Competition Shellholder Set to simplify this process.

I'm sorry for the the loss of your friend. His family is very generous.

If the Lilja-barreled rifle that was given to you has a custom chamber, it may require that the case necks be thinned by turning before reloading. If you have no information on the gun, you may have to do some investigating if the brass doesn't want to chamber. You need 0.003' clearance between the case neck and the chamber for full-pressure loads.

I would suggest that you get a copy of Glen Zediker's Handloading for Competition; it's available from Sinclair or Zediker. It's not easy to read in all parts, but it is very informative and will make the processes much clearer for you.

 

[Md25v]

Right now, I'm loading for my own .308 and 22-250 rifles. His gun does have a custom chamber, but I already have 2000 cases from him that are ready to be loaded for his gun when I finish working loads for mine.
I just want to make sure I understand. I'm fine using only the collet die and then seating the bullet until it gets hard to chamber rounds, then I will need to use a body sizing die to bump back the shoulder.
I have one more question. I noticed that after I fire brass for the first tome then use the collet die to neck size the brass the brass already exceeds the maximum length by .002 from what the book says. None the less, it still chambers fine and I don't want to trim the brass if I don't need to. Should I trim the brass after only one firing since it exceeds the max length even if the round chambers easily?
Thanks

 

[Mikem]

I would trim the brass back to the trim to length, and you wont need to do that after every reload, it will take several reloads, and my not reach the max length again for a long time. But when you body size or full length size, it will change the case OAL, so just keep an eye on it, and keep them between the trim to and max length.
I have a 308 Lee Collet die, but prefer to use a Forester bushing neck, shoulder bump die, and a Redding body only die, if needed. I just think it makes better reloads.
If you have and use a full length sizing die, it will shove the brass back to its original factory size including the shoulder, and you will lose the fire formed fit of your brass. You will wont to keep your brass a nice snug fit in that custom chamber,or all bolt gun chambers for that matter) it will be more accurate, and it extends your case life. But if you have more than one 308, dont mix ammo, if its fire formed.
Mike.

 

[Md25v]

Thanks, that's what I thought.
I have four rifles and one handgun,encore) in .308. I keep ammo for each one in separate sterilite tubs labeled by the gun's serial number so that I don't mix up the fire formed brass. I'll trim everything to the trim to length tomorrow. I wonder why factory ammo would be so much longer than max after just one firing?

 

[Winchester69]

Trim length is different for each chamber. What is in the book is according to SAAMI spec and not that needed for your chamber. Sinclair makes a gauge piece that is inserted into a split case neck; it's used to measure your chamber's neck length. Each of your gun's chambers will be different. If you're producing generic loads for all of your guns, then the shortest measurement will determine your max length. If you keep your brass a few thousandths shorter, you won't have any problems.

 

[bsekf]

Good information here. Let me expand on the Encore 308. Unlike the bolt guns, the Encore frame will flex and you will need to bump the shoulder back after each firing. If you resize with a full length die you will work the case neck and will probably need to anneal, otherwise you will start splitting necks. The body die and the collet are the way to go. With break open guns you have different reloading problems.

I too am sorry for your loss, you must have been a good friend.

Bill

 

[Mikem]

Bsekf, is correct, but just one more thing. If you reload for any semi autos, like an AR, M1A, Mimi 14, and handguns you should full length size, the auto mechanism is vary fast in removing and ejecting spent cases, and reloading its chamber, and having a little slop in the case to chamber fit, allows it to function with out jambing.
But you already knew that. But maybe some one out there that reads this will benefit.