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COL 223 Hornady 75gn ELD

G’Day All
Finally using my Lee 1000 to reload my Howa 1500 mini .223 1-8 twist. Loaded 55gn Hornady and 69gn Sierra successfully but having issues loading the 75gn ELD Match. According to the book COL is 2.250 can’t get it to that CLO as the projectile slides into the cartridge! What COL should I use to have a secure projectile! Thanks in advance! (Using ADI Benchmark 8208)
 
My COL with the 75 ELDM seated @ .020" off the lands is 2.375" in a rifle that has zero freebore. Having recently been playing around a fair bit with this bullet, I believe a freebore of 0.150" would be just about perfect, and would leave the boattail/bearing surface junction approximately 1/4 to 1/3 the neck length above the neck/shoulder junction when seated at about .020" off the lands. Unfortunately, not all .223 Rem rifles have a freebore that is .150" long. It would be more common to see a freebore length of up to approximately .050" to .070", which will leave a lot of bullet shanke seated below the neck/shoulder junction.

Don't get me wrong, seating them deep in the case can work if you have to do it, otherwise I wouldn't be trying to load them in a rifle with zero freebore. But it's not optimal in that a lot of bullet shank will be seated down into the case, thereby occupying usable case volume and render pressure at a given velocity much higher than it needs to be. The opposite side of that coin is that with a bullet as long as the 75 ELDM (~1.119"), loading it to feed reliably from a magazine means it will be sunk wwaaayyyyy down in the case, as it sounds like you've discovered. I am single feeding my loads, so a COL of 2.375" or greater is not an issue.

If feeding from a mag is desired, simply determine the longest COL that will feed reliably and start with that. You can still do seating depth testing, but will only be able to move the bullet farther away from the lands (i.e. deeper into the case).

One other thing to consider, an 8-twist may not be sufficient to stabilize the 75 ELDM. Even in a best case scenario (i.e. decent altitude, temperature, velocity, etc.), using an 8-twist may mean loss of intrinsic BC. In a worst case scenario, it may mean the bullet could start to leave oblong holes in the paper. If you observe that sort of behavior and/or excessively large groups, the 8-twist barrel may be the reason. Hornady recommends using a 1:7-twist.
 
What I find strange is that the Hornady website lists that the 75ELD and 80ELD require a minimum of 1:8 twist but the box is labeled with 1:7 minimum twist. I successfully shoot the 75ELD with a 1:8 twist at 2900fps MV. From a 26 inch barrel. My COL is 2.450 and that puts them .025 from the lands. My accuracy is pretty good at 700 yards. 5 and 6 shot group size is less than 3 inches and I’ve always been challenged with mirage and wind since I got this rifle about a month ago. I just received the 80ELD this week and I’m hoping to shoot some this weekend.
 
What I find strange is that the Hornady website lists that the 75ELD and 80ELD require a minimum of 1:8 twist but the box is labeled with 1:7 minimum twist. I successfully shoot the 75ELD with a 1:8 twist at 2900fps MV. From a 26 inch barrel. My COL is 2.450 and that puts them .025 from the lands. My accuracy is pretty good at 700 yards. 5 and 6 shot group size is less than 3 inches and I’ve always been challenged with mirage and wind since I got this rifle about a month ago. I just received the 80ELD this week and I’m hoping to shoot some this weekend.
You may well be working closer to the "Best Case" scenario, as opposed to "Nominal". Until the predicted Sg starts getting close to around 1.1, one might not notice any dramatic or obvious twist rate-dependent effects, such as oblong holes in the paper and/or really poor grouping. With an Sg in the 1.2 to 1.4 range, all that might happen is that the bullet behaves as if it has a lower BC than it should. It would be very easy not to notice increased windage without some definitive reference point. So if you've always been shooting the 75s out of an 8-twist barrel, they're not making oblong holes, and they're grouping well, why would you have any reason to believe the BC might not be all it could be? Nonetheless, you may not be getting the full intrinsic BC with an 8-twist barrel.

As it turns out, I suspect my numbers with the 75s out of a particular 8-twist barrel rifle will end up pretty close to yours based on QuickLoad predictions (I haven't started testing them yet in that rifle). I had thought about also trying the 80s in that setup, but Litz' Sg predictions for the 80s are even worse out of an 8-twist barrel. That is not surprising as it's a longer bullet. Nonetheless, the predicted Sgs made me pause about the notion of usaing them in the 8-twist barrel. I also have a bolt gun setup with a 26" barrel in which I am currently using the 75s at ~2900 fps, and it has a 7-twist barrel, so it would be the better candidate for which to load the 80s. One thing you might look into is that I'm not seeing a big difference in predicted windage between the 75s at 2900 fps and the 80s at just over 2800 fps. In other words, there just doesn't seem to be a big decrease in wind deflection with the 80s out of that specific rifle setup. I would need a longer barrel chambered with more freebore in order to really take advantage of the 80's higher BC. If you're in the same boat, it may be that running the 80s doesn't provide sufficient advantage to warrant potentially having to deal with the twist rate issue.
 
Roobie, Look at your sizing die. If the bullet is sliding back into the case. Sounds like you don't have enough neck tension. This maybe part of your problem. do you know what your COL is for the rifle?
 
The s
You may well be working closer to the "Best Case" scenario, as opposed to "Nominal". Until the predicted Sg starts getting close to around 1.1, one might not notice any dramatic or obvious twist rate-dependent effects, such as oblong holes in the paper and/or really poor grouping. With an Sg in the 1.2 to 1.4 range, all that might happen is that the bullet behaves as if it has a lower BC than it should. It would be very easy not to notice increased windage without some definitive reference point. So if you've always been shooting the 75s out of an 8-twist barrel, they're not making oblong holes, and they're grouping well, why would you have any reason to believe the BC might not be all it could be? Nonetheless, you may not be getting the full intrinsic BC with an 8-twist barrel.

As it turns out, I suspect my numbers with the 75s out of a particular 8-twist barrel rifle will end up pretty close to yours based on QuickLoad predictions (I haven't started testing them yet in that rifle). I had thought about also trying the 80s in that setup, but Litz' Sg predictions for the 80s are even worse out of an 8-twist barrel. That is not surprising as it's a longer bullet. Nonetheless, the predicted Sgs made me pause about the notion of usaing them in the 8-twist barrel. I also have a bolt gun setup with a 26" barrel in which I am currently using the 75s at ~2900 fps, and it has a 7-twist barrel, so it would be the better candidate for which to load the 80s. One thing you might look into is that I'm not seeing a big difference in predicted windage between the 75s at 2900 fps and the 80s at just over 2800 fps. In other words, there just doesn't seem to be a big decrease in wind deflection with the 80s out of that specific rifle setup. I would need a longer barrel chambered with more freebore in order to really take advantage of the 80's higher BC. If you're in the same boat, it may be that running the 80s doesn't provide sufficient advantage to warrant potentially having to deal with the twist rate issue.
tran thing I’m finding is that the 75’s require about 1moa less than GeoBallistics and Hornady’s 4DOF calculations. My come up prediction is 16.66 moa but after two shots verification, I dial back to 15 5/8 up and hit bullseye at 700 yards. My yardage is verified with a 300 ft tape and two walking measuring. My 6Dasher hits perfect calculation using the same chronograph and using GeoBallistics. I’m using Berger 105 hybrid in the Dasher.
 
I've shot thousands of 75 ELD out of a 26" Mullerworks 1:8. One of my favorite rifles to shoot. I shoot it regularly to 800yd with boring consistency. I also have run many thousands of the 75 ELD out of 1:7 Krieger and Bartlein

I'm running them 0.01 off in a Wylde chamber


My go to load is 24gr H4895 in Lapua brass with a 205M @ 2935.


These 75 ELD OCW's out of the 1:8 Mullerworks with both Varget and H4895.. both are stupid accurate






I also shoot thousands of the old 80 Amax out of this barrel. My favorite bullet in this gun. I still have a bunch of them. Bought all the 80 Amax 600ct boxes being blown out to make room for ELD when they were coming on seen
 
What I find strange is that the Hornady website lists that the 75ELD and 80ELD require a minimum of 1:8 twist but the box is labeled with 1:7 minimum twist. I successfully shoot the 75ELD with a 1:8 twist at 2900fps MV. From a 26 inch barrel. My COL is 2.450 and that puts them .025 from the lands. My accuracy is pretty good at 700 yards. 5 and 6 shot group size is less than 3 inches and I’ve always been challenged with mirage and wind since I got this rifle about a month ago. I just received the 80ELD this week and I’m hoping to shoot some this weekend.
When they were A Max they shot great in 8 twist. What Hornady didn't tell us when they replaced the plastic tip, is they also changed the body. Hence the 7 twist. Still good out to 300 ish
 

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