I'm sure this is an old topic. Are there enough advantages to moly bullets to justify the extra cost? I've tried to do some research but can seem to find any solid evidence either way. Read somewhere that may take as many as 15 foulers after cleaning. I've got about 6 weeks to get my materials together before my new rifle(6br) is here.
Coated vs. non coated
- Thread starter MOShooter
- Start date
I shoot moly for a few reasons. 1 is the sustainable accuracy for long coarse of fire. 2 is consistent bullet grip and reduced case weld. 3 is less copper problems and easy cleaning. 4 less pressure which allows me to load more powder for a faster load. Other than that I don't see any reason to use it.
Bullet coating is more of a personal preference -- with many opinions -- than definitive evidence. Somewhere on the Bulletin site a while back was a report of testing done by Norma that had some good info in it.
I personally cringe at the thought of pulling the trigger on an uncoated bullet. I also think moly is passe, but some still use it. Tungsten-disulfide is my preference and hBn (hexagonal boron nitride) is the new kid on the block with lots of users. A search of this site for tungsten-disulfide (also referred to as "Danzac") and HBN will get you all the info you can handle.
My opinion is that if I can coat my bullets with a substance that withstands hundreds of degrees of heat and thousands of pounds of pressure that it can only prolong the life of my barrel and cut down on the friction of bullet again bore. T-D coated bullets show slower speeds than non-coated bullets, which I interpret as the lubriosity of the t-d doesn't build as much pressure. To achieve the same speed usually takes and adjustment of the amount of powder.
The use of t-d does make the barrel easier to clean, and prolongs the number of shots between cleaning -- especially in my 30 BR. There are people shooting competitively with barrels that have thousands of rounds down the tube who use t-d.
But definitive, absolute hard evidence is hard to come by and the decision usually ends up being a personal one to suit your own beliefs, and whether you want to add the extra process of cleaning/coating/processing bullets.
I personally cringe at the thought of pulling the trigger on an uncoated bullet. I also think moly is passe, but some still use it. Tungsten-disulfide is my preference and hBn (hexagonal boron nitride) is the new kid on the block with lots of users. A search of this site for tungsten-disulfide (also referred to as "Danzac") and HBN will get you all the info you can handle.
My opinion is that if I can coat my bullets with a substance that withstands hundreds of degrees of heat and thousands of pounds of pressure that it can only prolong the life of my barrel and cut down on the friction of bullet again bore. T-D coated bullets show slower speeds than non-coated bullets, which I interpret as the lubriosity of the t-d doesn't build as much pressure. To achieve the same speed usually takes and adjustment of the amount of powder.
The use of t-d does make the barrel easier to clean, and prolongs the number of shots between cleaning -- especially in my 30 BR. There are people shooting competitively with barrels that have thousands of rounds down the tube who use t-d.
But definitive, absolute hard evidence is hard to come by and the decision usually ends up being a personal one to suit your own beliefs, and whether you want to add the extra process of cleaning/coating/processing bullets.
stool
to get the full advantage of coated bullets, is much more involved that just shooting coated bullets.
the bbl should be prepped for the coating, either pre coat or coating shots.
the load must be developed for the coated bullet and coated bbl.
the cleaning is different.
carbon can become a problem with moly coated bullets so a carbon remover has to become part of normal cleaning.
normal cleaning should consist of patches chemicals and not metallic brushes...you do not want to mess with the bbl coating.
most bullets with a coating will move further into the throat with less pressure because of the lubrication of the coating. this means your combustion chamber is bigger at a given time and your pressure will drop from an uncoated load. to restore velocity power will typically have to be added...and there maybe no room for it.
i shoot almost all coated bullets and very few nekid bullets......one big advantage.......you can shoot THE SAME accuracy LONGER.
AS IN BETWEEN CLEANINGS.
the bbl should be prepped for the coating, either pre coat or coating shots.
the load must be developed for the coated bullet and coated bbl.
the cleaning is different.
carbon can become a problem with moly coated bullets so a carbon remover has to become part of normal cleaning.
normal cleaning should consist of patches chemicals and not metallic brushes...you do not want to mess with the bbl coating.
most bullets with a coating will move further into the throat with less pressure because of the lubrication of the coating. this means your combustion chamber is bigger at a given time and your pressure will drop from an uncoated load. to restore velocity power will typically have to be added...and there maybe no room for it.
i shoot almost all coated bullets and very few nekid bullets......one big advantage.......you can shoot THE SAME accuracy LONGER.
AS IN BETWEEN CLEANINGS.
I shoot several competition rifles with naked bullets. Only moly (Danzac) goes on my Savage LRPV .223 bullets shot in factory class, which requires all original equipment, including the barrel. This rifle has never had naked bullets thru it. I recently had my smith borescope it and he said that after 2,600 rounds the chamber looks very good, with only a little firecracking at the leade.
All the above comments are what I have experienced also. I clean about every 50 rounds, then it takes 12-15 shots to bring accuracy back.
All the above comments are what I have experienced also. I clean about every 50 rounds, then it takes 12-15 shots to bring accuracy back.
stool said:
Carbon ( as in ring at end of chamber) can be a problem whether using coated or uncoated.
You have to be more specific when talking about bullet coatings. When using Danzac (WS2), most short range competitors will clean the barrel after an agg with a bronze brush, and a patch with Iosso or JB to REMOVE all the coating.
Although many of the top shooters in short range BR have tried coated bullets, a vast majority of the winners use naked bullets. Of course, this crowd cleans after very few shots. I have tried both Moly and Danzac, but went back to shooting bullets as they were originally made. Good shooting...James Mock
stool
i have been shooting moly for over 15 years..it creates a carbon problem that exceeds normal bare bullet shooting.
maybe the reason br shooters have seen no improvement in shooting coated bullets is they use the same cleaning method they do for bare bullets...which is WRONG.
do what you want, i know what works.....
maybe the reason br shooters have seen no improvement in shooting coated bullets is they use the same cleaning method they do for bare bullets...which is WRONG.
do what you want, i know what works.....
LHSmith said:
Forum Boss
Administrator
I'm glad many folks have had good experiences with various bullet coatings. I have to say this -- different barrels and different cartridge types (producing higher/lower velocities and pressures) may yield different results. I try to see what each barrel needs, given the powder I'm using and the speeds the bullets travel through the bore (clocked by MV).
With my 6mmBR in a 3-groove PacNor barrel, I shoot naked 105-grainers traveling 2900 fps MV.
Based on what I have observed, I can't say as I can see any benefits from changing to coated bullets. The gun will shoot a full match for me (50+ rounds) with no cleaning and no accuracy loss (that I can objectify). I don't have a carbon problem (at all), I don't get copper build-up, I have amazingly low throat erosion. And after 800 rounds through the barrel, the tube still cleans (after 40-60 rounds shot) with wet patches only (no brushing). My throat has only moved about .005 since new, and the velocity of my load is within 4-5 fps of what it was when the barrel was new. And yes, I do bore-scope the barrel regularly.
Now maybe if I was shooting a 6mm-284 at much higher velocity, things would be different and coating would be worth it.
As with everything I suggest people start with the simplest, proven solution. Try naked bullets and see if you have a problem before undertaking the enterprise of bullet coating. This is one person's opinion, YMMV.
With my 6mmBR in a 3-groove PacNor barrel, I shoot naked 105-grainers traveling 2900 fps MV.
Based on what I have observed, I can't say as I can see any benefits from changing to coated bullets. The gun will shoot a full match for me (50+ rounds) with no cleaning and no accuracy loss (that I can objectify). I don't have a carbon problem (at all), I don't get copper build-up, I have amazingly low throat erosion. And after 800 rounds through the barrel, the tube still cleans (after 40-60 rounds shot) with wet patches only (no brushing). My throat has only moved about .005 since new, and the velocity of my load is within 4-5 fps of what it was when the barrel was new. And yes, I do bore-scope the barrel regularly.
Now maybe if I was shooting a 6mm-284 at much higher velocity, things would be different and coating would be worth it.
As with everything I suggest people start with the simplest, proven solution. Try naked bullets and see if you have a problem before undertaking the enterprise of bullet coating. This is one person's opinion, YMMV.
I could only find moly coated 105 grain Hornady A-max during the shortage four years ago. The naked ones had been gone for quite a while and I bought the last available moly from 3rd gen. Instead of switching to moly, I just put the bullets in my tumbler and washed the moly off. That saved the prairie dog trip for me that year and the bullets shot just as good as ever.
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