Close call with Nosler .243 load data

[C.E.Smith043]

I can read, too.

My Lapua cases hold 54.0 grains of water. The Nosler case listed holds 53.9 grains of water. Do you actually believe that 1/10 grain difference is material?

There's more to Brass than just volume...Heck, i can make a Styrofoam cup hold 54 gr. of water, but that doesn't make it suitable for shooting it with

 

[carlsbad]

As I understand it, the OP was using the safe starting load. Lots of people pointing out why load data in manuals isn't exact.

Should a reloader using a new cartridge be able to safely use the "start at" load or not?

 

[Steve Ladino]

I

A couple of months ago, I loaded some Nosler 55 gr. Varmageddon HP bullets in .243 using H414 and Nosler's published load data on the web. Long story short, I ended up with a blown primer and other obvious pressure signs so I stopped shooting it immediately.

Just checked it in QuickLoad and the published starting load of 48.5 grains of H414 is already in the danger zone with an indicated Pmax of 52,760 psi. What the heck?!

Am I missing something - or is Nosler's load data incorrect?

I have found Nosler load data reliable when used as a guide and as agreeable to my experience from load data I already use.

 

[hogpatrol]

Just curious. What info can you give us on the rifle? Is it factory, custom, barrel twist, rounds down the pipe, clean with no carbon ring?

 

[Steve Ladino]

As I understand it, the OP was using the safe starting load. Lots of people pointing out why load data in manuals isn't exact.

Should a reloader using a new cartridge be able to safely use the "start at" load or not?

It is incumbent for a reloader to educate themselves thoroughly about the process and the components available to them to do reloading...…...in all cases a brand new reloader should confide in someone very knowledgable or the powder manufacturing Co. in order to verify the use of a powder planned on being used in the reloaded cartridge. I think its safe to say that loading data available from Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, Hodgdon, Alliant etc. etc. is safe to use.

 

[uncle-buck]

As I understand it, the OP was using the safe starting load. Lots of people pointing out why load data in manuals isn't exact.

Should a reloader using a new cartridge be able to safely use the "start at" load or not?

Based on my experience in this instance, the answer is "not always". And I will never load a new cartridge, bullet, or powder without first running QuickLoad to make sure it's safe.

 

[uncle-buck]

It is incumbent for a reloader to educate themselves thoroughly about the process and the components available to them to do reloading...…...in all cases a brand new reloader should confide in someone very knowledgable or the powder manufacturing Co. in order to verify the use of a powder planned on being used in the reloaded cartridge. I think its safe to say that loading data available from Sierra, Hornady, Nosler, Hodgdon, Alliant etc. etc. is safe to use.

I'm not new to reloading, friend.
And your assumption about published loading data isn't always true.
Nosler made a huge and potentially dangerous error in this instance.
If you disagree, please back it up with some facts.

 

[Steve Ladino]

I'm not new to reloading, friend.
And your assumption about published loading data isn't always true.
Nosler made a huge and potentially dangerous error in this instance.
If you disagree, please back it up with some facts.

My last post was to Carlsbad's question, should data be relied upon.....not questioning your loading experience. What I have written from my personal experience with reloading since 1979 are words I consider as facts. Very often problems encountered with loading especially with magnums are the fault of the operator or the gun.

I'm not new to reloading, friend.
And your assumption about published loading data isn't always true.
Nosler made a huge and potentially dangerous error in this instance.
If you disagree, please back it up with some facts.

 

[carlsbad]

So Steve, if you, an expert reloader, were to start a new load for a new cartridge, lets say 338LM, using Peterson brass and H1000 powder and 300 grain Lapua target bullets, where would you go to get your starting load? If you looked in the nosler manual and it gave you a starting load for that powder and bullet, would you use it?

 

[shoot4fun]

Current data sheet for this combination of cartridge/bullet is published in Nosler Load Data on their website. ***Edited out incorrect info***H414 is actually shown in Nosler online data for 243 Win.
There has never been a mistake printed in any reloading manual (sarcasm).
If there had been we would have seen a recall notice wouldn't we? (Yes, more sarcasm)
Powder also varies from lot to lot and I've found H414 among those that an be quite temperamental. Rifles also vary in chamber, barrel and ability to control pressures. I've owned rifles that would shoot loads well above published data without pressure issues and ones that would show obvious signs of high pressure even at much lower than max published data.
I used a load of H4350 for 7MM08 and 168 SMK that was published in Hodgdon online data. It shot extremely well in my rifle with no indications of excess pressure. Three years ( and a couple thousand of that load) later I rechecked the same source and they had dropped the max load by three grains.

 

[Park ranger]

Every time I look at Nosler load data, the heavier the bullet the less water it holds, in the same cartridge. So if Nosler says 54 grains of water, I think that means 54 behind the bullet. Check for yourself, look at light vs heavy bullets. It goes from 53.9 down to 48 grains of water in the 243

 

[shoot4fun]

Every time I look at Nosler load data, the heavier the bullet the less water it holds, in the same cartridge. So if Nosler says 54 grains of water, I think that means 54 behind the bullet. Check for yourself, look at light vs heavy bullets. It goes from 53.9 down to 48 grains of water in the 243

That is quite possible. After all, there is no "standard" way of arriving at data. In other words, some have said they hit max and then reduce by around 10% while others hold their methods secret.

 

[Steve Ladino]

So Steve, if you, an expert reloader, were to start a new load for a new cartridge, lets say 338LM, using Peterson brass and H1000 powder and 300 grain Lapua target bullets, where would you go to get your starting load? If you looked in the nosler manual and it gave you a starting load for that powder and bullet, would you use it?

Thanks for the compliment. This cartridge isn't one I would consider for myself or would advise anyone about. First question : consult Lapua's loading data...…...second question Yes

 

[KWeigel]

Was it an AR based rifle? I have seen issues with H414 and Nosler 55gr bt bullets even at low charges in a dpms lr-243.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Not doubting the op at all but I have to wonder how many others have found this to be a misprint or otherwise had pressure problems.

OP, I hope that you have contacted Nosler with your experience, to make them aware of a potential misprint or other problem.

H414 has long had a reputation for pressure spikes, but IIRC, they were mostly related to loads that were too light, similar to what a previous poster mentioned.

Either way, every gun is different and every component "can" matter. If the primer pocket expanded and the primer blew out, I suspect your actual pressure to have been even higher than QL predicts. Glad you're ok.--Mike

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Not doubting the op at all but I have to wonder how many others have found this to be a misprint or otherwise had pressure problems.

OP, I hope that you have contacted Nosler with your experience, to make them aware of a potential misprint or other problem.

Good advice to contact Nosler about it, I have e-mailed them before about a seating depth question and they got back to me the next day. If,...IF they have an issue I'm sure they would like to know or maybe they can explain why the results are that way.

 

[uncle-buck]

Every time I look at Nosler load data, the heavier the bullet the less water it holds, in the same cartridge. So if Nosler says 54 grains of water, I think that means 54 behind the bullet. Check for yourself, look at light vs heavy bullets. It goes from 53.9 down to 48 grains of water in the 243

I believe the Nosler loading data refers to the empty case capacity.
QuickLoad calculates the volume occupied by the seated bullet based on the specific bullet used and cartridge length.

Not doubting the op at all but I have to wonder how many others have found this to be a misprint or otherwise had pressure problems.

OP, I hope that you have contacted Nosler with your experience, to make them aware of a potential misprint or other problem.

H414 has long had a reputation for pressure spikes, but IIRC, they were mostly related to loads that were too light, similar to what a previous poster mentioned.

Either way, every gun is different and every component "can" matter. If the primer pocket expanded and the primer blew out, I suspect your actual pressure to have been even higher than QL predicts. Glad you're ok.--Mike

I emailed Nosler and included a copy of their load data and the QuickLoad printout.
We'll see what happens.

Am surprised that so few respondents on this thread appear to understand how far off the published load data is for that powder and bullet. I posted the load data and the QuickLoad sheet, but it appears that few bothered to read them.

 

[MislMan]

Uncle-Buck ... I don’t use Quickload but I understand it uses much data from shooter as well as having “canned” parameters as defaults. Is it possible that, since Varmegeddon bullets come in two (2) versions at 55 gr flatbase style, the program is using parameters from the tipped version versus the HP version? The OAL for the tipped being longer than for the HP could be causing calculations to reflect a compressed load at the seating depth you provide. Therefore the numbers reflect an unsafe load.

 

[uncle-buck]

Uncle-Buck ... I don’t use Quickload but I understand it uses much data from shooter as well as having “canned” parameters as defaults. Is it possible that, since Varmegeddon bullets come in two (2) versions at 55 gr flatbase style, the program is using parameters from the tipped version versus the HP version? The OAL for the tipped being longer than for the HP could be causing calculations to reflect a compressed load at the seating depth you provide. Therefore the numbers reflect an unsafe load.

No, the program contains data for both bullets.

 

[jimmymac]

I’m curious. If QL software is the final authority, why even bother with a loading manual?