Clicking Sound and Sticking Upon Bolt Lift

[6and7mm]

After trying to search this topic, I was unsuccessful in finding much info. When exracting fired brass from my bolt action rifle, sometimes I get a "clicking" sound and a somewhat "sticky" pull back at the apex of the bolt lift. I don't see signs of excess pressure, and I'm not using max loads.

I experienced this on my 6br with brass with multiple reloads. And I just experienced this yesterday with NEA Lapua brass for my factory Rem 40 XBR, chambered in 22 BR. Thanks.

Can you guys weigh in and give me your assessment of:
1) What causes this (I do grease the cocking cam, and I don't run max charges
2) What are the best solutions to resolve it?
3) Suggestions to best avoid the issue

 

[nmjwolf]

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/6-dasher-norma-fl-sizer-die.3906729/page-2

In Post #28 @tom describes the clicker.

 

[ShootDots]

In the web area of the case head, you are experiencing expansion. It is due to pressure. There is a slight possibility that you are not properly sizing the brass and that the sizing is not going down far enough on the case. However, I got that quite often from my Shehanes. In 2 of my Shehanes I had to get the velocity up over 2900 in order to get them to shoot and get the E.S.'s down. The brass only lasted about 4-5 firings and after the second firing I started getting the same "clicks" you are referring to. There were NO pressure signs and I was definitely NOT at max loads. The same with my two 6.5 x 284's. And I was properly sizing the cases. My bet is on excessive pressure.

 

[Wingnut00]

After trying to search this topic, I was unsuccessful in finding much info. When exracting fired brass from my bolt action rifle, sometimes I get a "clicking" sound and a somewhat "sticky" pull back at the apex of the bolt lift. I don't see signs of excess pressure, and I'm not using max loads.

I experienced this on my 6br with brass with multiple reloads. And I just experienced this yesterday with NEA Lapua brass for my factory Rem 40 XBR, chambered in 22 BR. Thanks.

Can you guys weigh in and give me your assessment of:
1) What causes this (I do grease the cocking cam, and I don't run max charges
2) What are the best solutions to resolve it?
3) Suggestions to best avoid the issue

I experienced the same exact problem with my 6mm comp match. Lapua brass no where near max pressure. I found some information awhile back and I'm sorry but can't find it again but it stated that lapua brass was quite a lot thicker at the web/head of the case and with a little expansion it would cause the heavy click at the primary extraction point of bolt lift. It stated that you could use a small base die to size your brass and that would help with the problem. But for me I tried Hornady brass and bingo, no more problem. Run way more h1k with no more "click". I would be willing to bet you have the same problem. I'm guessing that you probably want to keep runnin lapua cause of quality so maybe try small base die. I personally would like to hear what you figure out with this issue because I had same problem.
Good luck.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

After trying to search this topic, I was unsuccessful in finding much info. When exracting fired brass from my bolt action rifle, sometimes I get a "clicking" sound and a somewhat "sticky" pull back at the apex of the bolt lift. I don't see signs of excess pressure, and I'm not using max loads.

I experienced this on my 6br with brass with multiple reloads. And I just experienced this yesterday with NEA Lapua brass for my factory Rem 40 XBR, chambered in 22 BR. Thanks.

Can you guys weigh in and give me your assessment of:
1) What causes this (I do grease the cocking cam, and I don't run max charges
2) What are the best solutions to resolve it?
3) Suggestions to best avoid the issue

You don't have "excessive pressure". These clicks are caused by the swelling of the case, just in front of the web, which is normal. But in a tight match chamber, the swelling touches the chamber walls and causes binding, which causes the click at the top of t he bolt lift as it breaks free, and the drag/resistance to extraction.

PBIKE makes a die, called a "Ring die" that solves this problem.

Look at the web in this picture, and you will see the shiny area in front of the extractor groove that the die sizes.

Go here, and look - then contact him.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/pbike257-information.3899351/

 

[xr650rRider]

Good luck in contacting him. I inquired multiple times about a ring die and never got a response, so I moved on.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

XBBR, thank you for the explanation and picture.

If I may, a follow up for anyone who wishes to respond.

If I run the fired brass though my standard FL die and the resized brass chambers fine but I stlll experience the extraction click, that has to be pressure, correct? No amount or method of resizing is going to fix that, correct?

I always thought the objective of resizing was to minimize the "in and out" working of the brass. Gauges help but the ultimate test is if the brass chambers without resistance. Am I off base?

 

[gme]

I solved this problem in my 6BRX by grinding .030 off the top of a shellholder it allows me run the brass up a little deeper into a .308 FL die after going through an FL die, it just squeezes the web enough to create a little clearance, other option is to go with a custom FL die.

 

[Wingnut00]

Kyle
That is exactly what I thought and like I said about reading about the small base die I didn't understand that because I figured the case head would expand once again when fired which in my experience it did just by using FL die. Like you said when I resized just with FL die my round would chamber perfectly. Bang. Hard extraction click. What the hell? Switch brass. No more click.
Mr. 6and7mm. I'm sorry about hyjackin your thread. Not my intention. I'm just stupid new guy.

 

[XBBR Shooter]

Good luck in contacting him. I inquired multiple times about a ring die and never got a response, so I moved on.

I had no problem contacting PBIKE. I received a very long and detailed answer the next day. Unlike some "smiths", Paul is articulate and clear in his emails.

Only problem is, I can't figure out how to pronounce his last name

paul becigneul <pbike257@gmail.com>

XBBR, thank you for the explanation and picture.

If I may, a follow up for anyone who wishes to respond.

If I run the fired brass though my standard FL die and the resized brass chambers fine but I still experience the extraction click, that has to be pressure, correct? No! No amount or method of resizing is going to fix that, correct? No!!

I always thought the objective of resizing was to minimize the "in and out" working of the brass. Gauges help but the ultimate test is if the brass chambers without resistance. Am I off base?

The camming force available to chamber a cartridge, is far more than the force available to extract the fired case.

You can also try a "Small Base Body" die from Redding. They are ~ $25-ish. Set the die so it doesn't touch the shoulder. Most of the time that works...

If it continues to be a problem, you can have a gun smith polish out the rear of the chamber a few thou - it does not take much.

 

[Kyle Schultz]

Interesting. What I'm hearing is that proper body resizing isn't just focused on getting minimally-resized brass to chamber. Rather, it is to create enough chamber wall clearance to allow for the normal expansion of the brass even under a normal pressure situation. Is that right?

If so, then I believe this objective is consistent with the guidance given by Tom in the 6 Dasher link nmjwolf included above. In that thread, Tom said that unless you achieved at least 0.0005" of web contraction upon resizing, you ran the risk of experiencing a "clicker" upon extraction. Something around 0.0008" (at least as the 6 Dasher is concerned) is considered optimum.

This discussion has been very enlightening. Thanks to all who have contributed.

Note: Resizing values edited to correct error in original post.

 

[Wingnut00]

So I just went and done some measuring. Fired lapua brass from my 6 comp right beginning part of the web .470. Resized FL measures .468
Hornady is exactly the same fired and resized as lapua. My lapua is exactly 8grs heavier than my Hornady both wit a fired primer still in the case. So in my case why Hornady works so well and lapua has such hard click.
I don't have near the experience as most guys on here so is there something that I'm missin. Obviously I'm not contracting even .005.

 

[Wingnut00]

Again very sorry. I feel like I took this discussion over with my own problem.

 

[6and7mm]

Hents, okay, up to this point you all agree on the cause. Good deal.

There have been several suggested solutions. From trimming down the top of the shellholder, to trying small base fies, to trying Paul's ring die.

There remains one question at this juncture.
1) Would I have to use the small base die or Paul's ring die each time thereafter when I reliad these cases, or use like every third reliadto keep them in "tune" with my chamber?

 

[Wingnut00]

I can not say for sure but my experience is you would have to use which ever method you chose to try every time. But please post what u try and results. And if I figure something out I will do the same.

 

[Ggmac]

It's an easy fix , get a 45 ACP carbide die , remove the decap rod , bore out the upper part and you have your self a ring die , I've now done about 30 for guys at no charge , just re shipping . The Lee die is currently running .467-.468 . It works !
Gary

If your cases have that much weight diff you may , MAY have volume diff also which would make one case have a hotter load . Not always though .

 

[Tim Singleton]

I have a ring die from Paul they do help
Ultimately it is my belief the problem is a reamer to brass mismatch. The small base or ring die is just a patch. The long term solution is a reamer that matches the brass you are using

 

[Ggmac]

To the op , the 22br , what reamer was used ? If the older remington, it calls for a 468-9 base @.200
Remington, win fed brass measure that , new Lapua measure .470 .
Reamer , brass incompatible . The ring die will be a every time process .
Also the necks may have diff lengths , again depends on reamer .
Try resizing remington 7 Br brass , if your up to the work , you can't just run thru a 22 br die . Needs multiple resize to get to 22 .
Or get the chamber cleaned with a newer 22 br Norma , LAPUA , reamer .

 

[Link]

I had that with my 30 br. I resized with a 30-06 fl die so as it wouldn't bump the shoulder.
Right or wrong ?, it cured my click.

Link

 

[madmixerman]

I had that with my 30 br. I resized with a 30-06 fl die so as it wouldn't bump the shoulder.
Right or wrong ?, it cured my click.

Link

I have used an '06 die when the 45acp wouldn't size it down enough to get the click out.Never had any problems arise from it. 30br.