Cleaning with a bore guide

[64Rambler]

This is recent video from Bryan Litz is similar to Alex's described methods except - he doesn't use a bore guide as shown. Looks like he's using a Tipton rod.

I think this is the exact opposite of what Alex is doing; Bryan ONLY uses JB Bore Paste and wet patches.

 

[Carl S]

One thing that is sometimes overlooked.make sure your jag is not bent.it won't matter how central your rod is in your bore guide that jag will catch in the throat.a customer called with a issue with his cleaning regime on a barrel I had recently fitted.when he pushed the rod down the guide and starting the bore there was a slight jump which he couldn't get his head around.on inspection his jag was bent.he hadn't noticed.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Jags are cheap, inspect and keep spares.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

A question for Mr. Wheeler. I am very curious as to how steel type/quality/hardness comes into play concerning wear due to improper rod alignment. And do they use softer steels in rimfire barrels?

I ask this because I bought a Kimber .22 Hornet in the 80's and the barrel severely shot out in a few hundred rounds (not just the throat). I carried it to my gunsmith, he sent it to Kimber, and they re-barreled it. I took that barrel and toasted it in less than 200 rounds. I carried it back to my gunsmith and he sent it off for another warranty re-barrel, but this time he asked them to send the old barrel back. He then took that barrel and had a friend of his who was a metallurgist test the steel. He said it was a steel used in 22 rimfire barrels, therefore the wear. So are rimfire barrels generally equivalent to centerfire barrels in hardness and quality?

I dont know if they do in factory barrels but in the aftermarket barrels its the same steel.

 

[Knotwild]

I dont know if they do in factory barrels but in the aftermarket barrels its the same steel.

Thanks. After my experience I've always been curious.

 

[bobinpa]

After a while the coating started to peel off and stay in the barrel, if not for a bore scope I may not have realized what that was.
Right or wrong I switched to polished stainless rods.

Why wouldn't you just throw away the rod with the damaged coating and get a new one? If the rod was so bad why keep it for a back up and take a chance of using it at all?

 

[Papamike]

this is why I use a carbon fiber cleaning rod.
They stay straight.

 

[6MMsteve]

I try to keep the rod straight and level as possible when cleaning, with a smooth fit patch

 

[Tesoro]

Dewey rods and their 'no harm' bronze brushes + JB paste + worn brushes and patch with JB. 'Pool cue' bore guide method as get better feel to short stroke the post leade area to remove carbon buildup. Works for me - no copper no carbon. I believe the magic ingredient in JB is diatomaceous earth so it breaks down with use and is softer than steel to start with. Bending rods = too large a patch or brush.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Dewey rods and their 'no harm' bronze brushes + JB paste + worn brushes and patch with JB. 'Pool cue' bore guide method as get better feel to short stroke the post leade area to remove carbon buildup. Works for me - no copper no carbon. I believe the magic ingredient in JB is diatomaceous earth so it breaks down with use and is softer than steel to start with. Bending rods = too large a patch or brush.

I'll Drink to that.

 

[Lee Whitsel]

Excellent advice....Based on what I have seen, I would add, slow down and pay attention to what you are doing. Every time that I take the rod out of the barrel, I wipe it off before reinserting it.

Just love the smart thinking ideas the you all have 0n these forums. The more 0f them that I read the better all my guns shot and my buddy that I talked into reading this sight says the same thing. His 243 went form 2" groups down now below 1/2" groups. We are both happy t0 find this sight for great reloading tips.

 

[ShaunW]

I didn’t realize Thorro clean is an abrasive. It makes since as it pulls so much carbon and junk out that I spray my brush off the garbage can between scrubbing sets.

Also for the Dewey crowd are you guys able to use them with a bore guide and 32” barrel?

 

[284winner]

For me anyway, the culprit of a bent cleaning rod during the cleaning process is a patch that's too big on the jag. It causes the person to put too much pressure on the rod handle causing the bend. I get the not paying attention but the tight patch causes a bent rod. I precut my patches for each caliber bore. They don't take much pressure to ride down the rifling. Liberal solvent to sufficiently coat the lands and groves to break down the powder and copper. The subsequent patches will remove that fouling debris. This has gave me the best results. I'll use a tiny bit of Isso to remove the carbon rings or fired throats but I don't work all that down the barrel, just the throat area. I'm done with bowed cleaning rods during the cleaning process.

 

[coldboreshot]

Guys, I have seen this for years. Cleaning rods bent so much you can literally hear them scaping the bore. A bore guide does not make a rod immune from rubbing the bore. They are just plastic and have clearence. You still need to take care to keep the rod straight and in line with the bore. The guide helps but only a little. I hold my off hand on the stock and guide the rod like a pool stick. This is espesially important when using abrasives.

This method has actually improved my Billiards sport.

 

[wer0206]

I think this is the exact opposite of what Alex is doing; Bryan ONLY uses JB Bore Paste and wet patches.

FWIW Frank Green from Bartlein Barrels has a great cleaning do’s and dont’s thread on the hide. Here is a link to his post where he attached his cleaning/break in steps. TLDR he doesn’t recommend using bronze brushes with abrasives or abrasives in general unless they’re absolutely needed. He thinks Iosso is too aggressive so when he does use them its a small amount of rem40x or JB blue paste on a patch rolled around a Parker Hale jag.

If using a nylon brush remove it before pulling the rod back through then screw it back on. He mainly uses hoppes 9 as his solvent and soaks a patch then Wraps it around a parker hale jag. When running the patches he makes sure not to completely exit the barrel with the jag. He will leaves hoppes in the barrel as a protectant the. Run a dry patch before shooting. If in a hurry he uses sweets then rem40x the hoppes.

He also doesn’t feel comfortable using bore tech products because he has seen some corrosion after folks have used them (they are about 80% water) but the consensus on the thread is that as long as you thoroughly dry patch out after using them (with 10+ patches) or run a few patches of isopropyl alcohol and then dry patch it seems to get all the water out from the BT products and then you can run a light patch of mineral oil etc as a protectant.

Post in thread 'For the Love of God, GI Joe and John Wayne.... cleaning and abrasive cleaners'
https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...g-and-abrasive-cleaners.7183723/post-11082636

 

[BoydAllen]

A few years back a fellow that I knew had taken up short range group benchrest, and was shooting LT 32 exclusively, doing well at local sanctioned matches. He had the use of a friend's bore scope, and that same fellow had cautioned him about using Iosso. This left him in a real bind. His rifle had stopped shooting, and no amount of bronze brush and solvent work would remove what the bore scope showed him was the problem. Finally, out of desperation he followed my advice, taken from an interview of Tony Boyer, of how to CAREFULLY use IOSSO, He scrupulously followed my directions, and measured his touch point before and after. The hard carbon was removed, his accuracy was restored, and his throat was not moved at all in the process.

Some time before that, I had advised a new LT 32 shooter that carefully using IOSSO about every 100 rounds to keep ahead of the hard carbon seemed like a good idea. Some time later he told me that he had gotten normal service life and good accuracy from three barrels that he had cleaned that way.

I never had a hard carbon problem with 133, cleaning often, right after shooting, with Butch's, patches and a liberal amount of bronze brushing, but in trying some of the pre release LT32 I found that it required a change in my cleaning, not that it was bad, or a problem, just a modified procedure.

 

[Dave M.]

After a while the coating started to peel off and stay in the barrel, if not for a bore scope I may not have realized what that was.
Right or wrong I switched to polished stainless rods.

What polished stainless rods do you prefer?

 

[JFrank]

What polished stainless rods do you prefer?

Dave I’m not sure there’s much difference between brands but I like Pro Shot.
Jim

 

[DaWhit]

A few years back a fellow that I knew had taken up short range group benchrest, and was shooting LT 32 exclusively, doing well at local sanctioned matches. He had the use of a friend's bore scope, and that same fellow had cautioned him about using Iosso. This left him in a real bind. His rifle had stopped shooting, and no amount of bronze brush and solvent work would remove what the bore scope showed him was the problem. Finally, out of desperation he followed my advice, taken from an interview of Tony Boyer, of how to CAREFULLY use IOSSO, He scrupulously followed my directions, and measured his touch point before and after. The hard carbon was removed, his accuracy was restored, and his throat was not moved at all in the process.

Some time before that, I had advised a new LT 32 shooter that carefully using IOSSO about every 100 rounds to keep ahead of the hard carbon seemed like a good idea. Some time later he told me that he had gotten normal service life and good accuracy from three barrels that he had cleaned that way.

I never had a hard carbon problem with 133, cleaning often, right after shooting, with Butch's, patches and a liberal amount of bronze brushing, but in trying some of the pre release LT32 I found that it required a change in my cleaning, not that it was bad, or a problem, just a modified procedure.

Care to elaborate on your cleaning routine with abrasives?

 

[BoydAllen]

Care to elaborate on your cleaning routine with abrasives?

The way that I used IOSSO for many years still works. It came from an interview of Tony Boyer that was published in Precision Shooting Magazine. AT the time, Tony was still shooting T powder, which I believe was prone to making hard carbon.

He would do this after every match (five shots for record and however many sighters). After a regular solvent brush and patches cleaning, he would use a nylon brush completely filled with IOSSO in the back of the barrel, the back 8-10 inches. He would work on the throat and then work forward, after which he would carefully patch it out. I personally use a lot of patches and solvent to make sure it is all removed. I am sure that he did the same.

Given that IOSSO will blacken in a clean bore, and that I would use up quite a bit if I cleaned the brush, I started wrapping the brush with a little aluminum foil after each use, leaving whatever IOSSO remained on it, and adding as needed the next time.

Since I was not using T powder for my 6PPC, and since 133 did not seem to create a hard carbon problem, given the frequency with which I cleaned my PPC barrels, I hardly ever used any abrasive in them, but for other calibers, mostly varmint, using other powders I would use IOSSO, infrequently, on an as needed basis, based on inspection.

A few months back, since I had run out of IOSSO, I decided to try the Thorroclean, Thorroflush combination that Bullet Central sells, which is IOSSO based, but as a liquid. I like it a lot. My method with it involves wrapping one of the softer black nylon brushes with a 1 3/8" square patch and applying the Thorro clean to it. Back when Tony did the interview, harder nylon brushes were not available, so I use and recommend the slightly softer black ones for his method. The Thorroflush is used per directions and does an excellent job of removing the Thorroflush, although it can irritate the skin of my hands. For that reason, when usijng that combination, I put on some disposable mechanics gloves that I purchased a quantity of some years back.

I should add that I would never use a bronze brush with any abrasive cleaner.