cleaning question

[Gman]

After shooting 20-25 rounds, my cleaning regimen is as follows:

1. I push 3 saturated patches of Montana X-Treme solvent through the bore.

2. I push a bronze brush with Montana X-Treme back and forth approximately 20 times.

3. I push another wet patch through the bore.

4. I short stroke a saturated patch of Montana X-Treme, just in front of the chamber approx. 20 times.

5. I repeat,step 4.) in the rest of the bore.

6. I push 3 or 4 dry patches till patch is clean.

7. I push 2 saturated patches of de-natured alcohol down the bore.

8. I push a bronze brush with de-natured alcohol back and forth approx. 20 times.

9. I push 3 or 4 dry patches through, and on these patches is a dark BROWN color.

My question is, what is this dark Brown color, and is the de-natured alcohol removing something that the Montana X-Treme isn't? Is this possibly a carbon problem? What can I do to remove it, if it is carbon?

10. I will then spray the bore full of Wipe-Out, wait 20 minutes, and on the patches will still be a dark BROWN color.

11. I repeat,step 10.), but leave the Wipe-Out in for 4 or 5 hours.

12. I then dry patch, with the patches still having some BROWN color on them.

This is in an 8" twist Krieger bbl.,28" long), 6BR chamber, shooting 30-31.4 grains of RL 15, with Berger 108 gr. BT's. Am I worrying about nothing?

 

[Preacher]

What color is your bore guide, I hope your using one ?

 

[Gman]

I am using a white Sinclair bore guide,delrin?) with a Bore-Tech jag & rod. There is 600 rounds through this barrel.

 

[dreever]

Only my opinion, but it seems to me you're brushing way to much.
I only brush one direction then remove the brush after it exits the muzzle. I use a couple of wet patches of Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV, or Bore Tech Eliminator. Then 3 wet brush strokes of the same, then two more wet patches, then dry patch it out.Follow up with one patch of Lock Eze then put her to bed.

Danny

 

[bobinpa]

I don't understand your point.....Why would he be brushing too much? What could it hurt? If he is getting a brown color after all of that, where is it coming from? I am not saying your wrong, I am saying I don't know and I don't understand.....please explain.

 

[Klong]

With a 6BR I would say that your procedure is overkill. I have shot 1,000s of 6BR and 223 rounds in various match barrels with the heavy bullets and have determined that for my barrels this aggressive cleaning is not necessary. I shoot highpower and not bench rest, so what I have to say does not apply to trying to shoot in the .100s. I used a bore scope and rifle performance to arrive at the cleaning procedure that worked best. I shot mostly moly bullets although I used the same procedure when shooting naked bullets. Most times the round count was 88 rounds between cleaning, but sometimes up to 198 rounds.

The cleaning procedure was:

1> Wet patch with 50/50 Kroil and GM top engine cleaner. I think here any good carbon remover will do. I used Shooters Choice with equal success.

2> 2nd wet patch of the same.

3> IOSSO paste on a patched jag with a snug fit pushed straight through first 2 times then pushed and pulled 6 or 7 times in the barrel. Paying particular attention to any bumps or tight spots indicated. If no bumps or tight5 spots indicated then, 2 more wet patches with the carbon remover and I'm done.

4> About every 500 rounds I would use a patch and a good cooper remover to clean to bare metal. I never really proved that I needed to do this, but I felt better doing it so I did. I would run 2 fouling shots down the barrel before firing in a match if possible after cleaning to bare metal.

I have shot 1st place Master using a service rifle at 600 yards at Camp Perry using this process.

I feel that most of the time we over clean our barrels.

Good luck. Ken

 

[dreever]

Please read the article on barrel cleaning/brushing. Most barrel makers now recommend minimal brushing with broze brushes and never to reverse the brush direction. He's brushing 40 strokes back and forth for every 20-25 rounds fired. Seems excessive to me.

Perhaps the brown color is powder fouling with Reloader 15, Does this occur if you shoot Varget? My personel experience with Reloader 15 was that it is filthy stuff.

 

[Gman]

I have NEVER reversed the brush while it is in the bore. I broke in the barrel using Varget and Sierra 107's, and I got low velocity,,2650 fps) with cratered primers and heavy bolt lift. I then tried RL 15, now my velocity is 2750-2800 fps with the Berger 108 BT's. I haven't used Varget since. I hope someone can tell me what this brown on the patches is.

 

[Mark Walker in TX]

How many rounds down the bore?

Do you oil the barrel before you put the rifle away?

The only thing brown I have ever seen come out of a barrel is rust.

 

[Twud]

Go to benchrest.com and pose your question.

 

[dreever]

Gman,

What I meant was letting the brush exit the muzzle, then pulling it back through the bore. Current consensus is to unscrew the brush after it exits the muzzle.

Do you get brown if you use other powders? If not it's dirty Reloader 15 which I still think is the culprit.

Danny

 

[tenring]

I have used denatured alcohol often thru the years. It is a cleaner, and evaporates quickly. It will leave the bore dry, which promotes rust formation. I always follow denatured alcohol with an oily patch. I also begin my cleaning process with a mixture of 80% GM top cleaner and 20% Marvel Mystery oil to eliminate carbon first. When no carbon residue appears, I dry the bore, then run Bore Tech Eliminator thru until its clean. Don't use a brush unless the fouling is really tough.

 

[rayfromtx]

Dreever-
What consensus are you talking about? All the benchrest shooters I know and can remember use brushes and none remove them for each pass. We clean our rifles more than anyone, perhaps every 8 shots and accuracy is not affected by the use of brushes or none of us would do it.

Now there are surely some I'm not aware of that do what you prescribe and I've certainly read about some that do on the internet, but I don't think that would constitute a consensus. Perhaps other parts of the country have different habits.

Gman- It's carbon or rust. I would need to use a borescope to figure it out but perhaps someone here knows a simple test to determine if it is rust by testing the patch. I am so glad I purchased a borescope. It was difficult to justify the cost at the time but I use it every week for something and use it a lot when cleaning at home to adjust my cleaning methods. What I have to do to get the barrel clean seems to change from time to time and barrel to barrel. What I know for sure is that by following all the internet tips I could find, I only thought my barrels were clean before I got the borescope. I had copper hidden under layers of carbon. I even had carbon hidden under those layers of copper. It took a lot of time and care to get my clean barrels really clean. Some were much more accurate after I did.

The carbon is really hard to cut with any solvent without a good brush and some time for the surfactants to work.

I hope I haven't stepped on any toes. These are just my opinions.

 

[dreever]

rayfromtx,

Here's the article I was refering to. http://www.6mmbr.com/borebrushing.html

Don't worry about my toes, I have my steelies on. LOL!

Danny

 

[Gman]

600 rounds through the stainless steel barrel, I always oil the bore after dry patching out the alcohol. I wipe the cleaning rod after every pass, and neutralize the brush & jag,with the alcohol) when I'm done dry patching out the Montana X-Treme solvent. I will load up some Varget, shoot, clean, then see what happens. Thanks for all the feedback guys!

 

[dreever]

GMan,
Let us know what happens please. This brown thing has us all curious.

Danny

 

[jo191145]

Gman
Question for you.
Step # 8. Twenty stokes with a bronze brush and denatured alcohol.
Why do that?
I thought alcohol was just supposed to neutralize ammonia based solvents.
I wonder if alcohol and the small amount of bronze your losing from the brush might react chemically somehow to create a brownish sludge.
Alliant powders burn like diesel fuel. They usually require a little extra cleaning but your method sounds extreme. Especially with a Kreiger. Try some Viht.
Maybe let your carbon solvents soak a little longer to do the work.
Wipe out doesn't work on carbon to well but you probably already know that.
Good Luck

 

[Gman]

Maybe you are right about the de-natured alcohol and the brush. I plan on shooting this weekend, and I will minimize the amount of brushing and see what happens. I'll let everyone know, thanks!