cleaning out carbon

[rebs]

When you guys use Iosso to remove carbon do you brush until every bit of carbon is removed ? I have carbon in my barrel and am afraid of scrubbing too much and hurting the barrel.

 

[jelenko]

I think the answer is "It depends on what the target shows".

For me, I want to remove the 'ring' at the beginning of the throat each time I clean.
For further down the barrel - like what is in your pic - I like to have the lands clean and at least the middle 1/3 of the grooves clean [which is what it looks like in your pic].
Note that my accuracy needs are .6 MOA +/-.

 

[PopCharlie]

I scrub till its all gone. Once I have gotten out all of the carbon I can with JBs or Iosso past, the remaining carbon is hard, but the bore paste has "scuffed" it. I the run a patch soaked with Free-All. Then I wrap a Free-All soaked patch around a worn out bronze brush and scrub. Then dry patch it out and check it again. Check it with a bore scope. Repeat the Free-All steps if necessary. Bare metal when I'm done.

PopCharlie

 

[JMayo]

The solidness of the groves on op's tells me he's not getting down in there. Brushes are necessary imo.

This barrel of mine is 6-800 shots. So it's good looking.
My 2500 shots barrel, not pictured, is salted with copper but the carbon is pretty clean

 

[BoydAllen]

Suggestion to OP, buy some Thorroclean and Thorroflush, some rectangular patches and a black (softer) nylon brush. Wrap one of the patches around the brush so that it covers the length completely and overlaps some. Trim as needed. Apply a coating of Thorroclean to the patch, evening it out to an even coating with your finger. Using a good bore guide, that has a bushing that stays on the rod and plugs into the back of the guide, stroke the brush patch in the area that has the black remaining after your conventional cleaning with a bronze brush. Take care to note the rod position where the brush is at the crown and be prepared to remove the brush and straighten the patch if you push much of it out of the muzzle. It will hang up. If you go too far just remove the brush and the rod , straighten the patch, put the brush back on and go again. Do 25 end to end cycles and then clean the Thorroclean out with patches and Thorroflush, and inspect with your bore scope. If needed, repeat. At the end I suggest that you take pains to be sure that all of the Thorroclean is out of, and off of everything. rod bore guide, chamber, lug recesses, etc. You get the idea. At that point I like to finish with a wet patch of something like Butch's and 2-3 dry patches, dry the chamber, wipe off the crown, and lube the lugs and cam. I find the Thorroclean a bit hard on the skin, but worth it in terms of its effectiveness so I put on some disposable 6 mil mechanics gloves (that I have been able to reuse several times). The stuff tends to bead up and run off of patches so I do not squirt it on, but rather hold the opening of the bottle against the patch, with no pressure on the bottle, and let capillary action wet most of the patch. This is much less messy and conserves the product.

 

[DShortt]

If you aren't already take a well worn brush and wrap a patch or two around it tightly so it covers the bristles. Apply the paste to the patches and work it it a bit as your applying it and it will help the patch form tightly to the brush. Run about 20 strokes both ways paying particular attention to and area with heavier carbon and not so much in the other areas. Short stroke the brush in the heavily Carbonell areas. Then vlean the barrel with solvent and dry. Check your progress with the bore scope and repeat as necessary.
It might take quite a bit to get all the carbon out if you've let it build up for awhile.

Edit to add - I never tried Thorroclean as Boyd explained above but if he says it works I believe him.

 

[BoydAllen]

If you aren't already take a well worn brush and wrap a patch or two around it tightly so it covers the bristles. Apply the paste to the patches and work it it a bit as your applying it and it will help the patch form tightly to the brush. Run about 20 strokes both ways paying particular attention to and area with heavier carbon and not so much in the other areas. Short stroke the brush in the heavily Carbonell areas. Then vlean the barrel with solvent and dry. Check your progress with the bore scope and repeat as necessary.
It might take quite a bit to get all the carbon out if you've let it build up for awhile.

Edit to add - I never tried Thorroclean as Boyd explained above but if he says it works I believe him.

I got some when I was going to have to buy more IOSSO, and I like it better. For those that don't know the products are the result a collaboration between Bullet Central and IOSSO. Thorroclean is basically a liquid form of IOSSO, and Thorroflush a very effective product for removing it.

 

[wedgy]

Running a patch of carbon solvent down the barrel and short stroke the throat before you leave the range while the barrel is still warm seems to help, makes it easier to clean when you get home.

 

[K22]

Just curious, what is motivating you to clean down to bare metal. Is the rifle shooting poorly or did it start shooting poorly.

After you complete the various suggestions offered it in this thread, it would be helpful to me and perhaps others if you post the performance results / improvements that occurred, i.e., post cleaning shooting results.

PS: What was your cleaning method. I'm particularly interested in the frequency (round fired) cleaning and whether or not you used a bronze brush in your cleaning process.

Thanks.

 

[rebs]

Just curious, what is motivating you to clean down to bare metal. Is the rifle shooting poorly or did it start shooting poorly.

After you complete the various suggestions offered it in this thread, it would be helpful to me and perhaps others if you post the performance results / improvements that occurred, i.e., post cleaning shooting results.

PS: What was your cleaning method. I'm particularly interested in the frequency (round fired) cleaning and whether or not you used a bronze brush in your cleaning process.

Thanks.

I shoot 300 yd bench rest matches. I seen accuracy go from 1/2 moa and sometimes less grow to about 1 1/2 moa. I have been using Boretech eliminaror and their carbon remover with brushes but not getting all the carbon out. I generally cleaned after about 100 rounds or so. I have used Iosso very sparingly since there seems to be a controvery as to it hurting the barrel.
It is cold and snowy here so it will be a while before I get to the range again.
Is thoroclean an abrasive?

 

[6MMsteve]

I got some when I was going to have to buy more IOSSO, and I like it better. For those that don't know the products are the result a collaboration between Bullet Central and IOSSO. Thorroclean is basically a liquid form of IOSSO, and Thorroflush a very effective product for removing it.

I just purchased some Thorroclean thanks for the tip

 

[K22]

I shoot 300 yd bench rest matches. I seen accuracy go from 1/2 moa and sometimes less grow to about 1 1/2 moa. I have been using Boretech eliminaror and their carbon remover with brushes but not getting all the carbon out. I generally cleaned after about 100 rounds or so. I have used Iosso very sparingly since there seems to be a controvery as to it hurting the barrel.
It is cold and snowy here so it will be a while before I get to the range again.
Is thoroclean an abrasive?

Thanks for the reply. That sure is quite a change in moa. I have never seen that much change that I could connect with cleaning, mostly when I had a significant change it was a worn-out barrel or some other mechanical problem.

I'm not familiar with Thoroclean so I can't help you there.

I'm not a benchrest shooter but I have had success with BoreTech C4 carbon remover when used with a Bronze Brush. You can use C4 with a bronze brush. There are several benchrest shooters on this site so they should be able to point you in the right direction.

Let me know how you make out with Thoroclean if you decide to use it.

 

[DShortt]

rebs - you may already know this but given the accuracy deterioration you are seeing have you checked the end of the neck area for a carbon ring? Might be the cause.

 

[BoydAllen]

I shoot 300 yd bench rest matches. I seen accuracy go from 1/2 moa and sometimes less grow to about 1 1/2 moa. I have been using Boretech eliminaror and their carbon remover with brushes but not getting all the carbon out. I generally cleaned after about 100 rounds or so. I have used Iosso very sparingly since there seems to be a controvery as to it hurting the barrel.
It is cold and snowy here so it will be a while before I get to the range again.
Is thoroclean an abrasive?

I think that many of us have been a little afraid of abrasive cleaners and to be sure if one is careless with any one of them, damage can occur. To address this particular issue I did a test, and plan on doing more. My testing of Thorroclean was done on some used test barrels that came to me dirty. One of those barrels, that had been cleaned spotless was used for this test. I carefully used a prepared case, bullet and Hornady tool to measure where touch was on the barrel. I did multiple measurements, being very careful, until I was satisfied that I had a repeatable result....then I prepared a brush, patch, and Thorroclean setup and short stroked the throat of the chamber, where we would worry about wear from an abrasive cleaner, 25 back and forth cycles, and then remeasured. There was absolutely NO change at all. Since this is not a barrel that will ever be on an action I can go back and do the test as many times as I like. Following my recommendations (same type brush, slightly different method), a friend used IOSSO to clean his barrel every 100 rounds to the end of the accuracy life for a couple of 6PPC barrels. He saw no ill effects from doing that, and got normal expected accuracy lives of about 1,600 rounds. I first started using IOSSO after reading an interview of Tony Boyer, by Dick Wright, that was published in Precision Shooting magazine. I copied his method and used it that way for many years, without any ill effects. Back then Tony used his method with IOSSO between every match. I later figured out that the reason had to be because he was shooting T powder which was more prone to forming hard carbon than the 133 that I was using.