cleaning during a match????

[flexible]

Hi everyone, flexible here:

This is my second year of shooting BR matches and I'm in the minority at the matches in that I don't clean my rifles till the match is over.
Is anything gained by cleaning every few rounds? I'm shooting 30 or 35 rounds per rifle (Factory class and then Light Varmint)
thanks

 

[rwj]

One way to find out for certain! A good indicator would be groups getting larger as the round count increases.

 

[DaveTooley]

One things for sure. Cleaning after every target doesn't hurt accuracy.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm the same...only clean after the match on a typical, good bbl, unless I see a drop off. I do coat my bullets with danzac, which I know helps in this regard. I don't do things just because it's what everyone else does. I test them for myself and just do what testing tells me. It has worked for me but I'm not telling anyone they should change what works either. Copper has been a non-issue with coated bullets. Keep the carbon and carbon ring at bay and I'm GTG. The powders and loads often used in long range are more prone to carbon build up than typically seen in SR, too. So what works for one doesn't necessarily work for the other. Another thing, most powders burn a lot cleaner at higher pressures. There are pros and cons to loading hot but this is one reason I load at the top end...fwiw.

 

[Jayplace]

I'm a little confused about the cleaning thing too. It seems the short range BR group shooters tend to clean between each target which is 5 to 10 shots. The VFS short range shooters tend to clean after 30 to 50 shots, or the match.
In my opinion both are about as pure regarding accuracy as it gets. Wind and other outside matters have less impact on results than the other precision shooting for these two. They do tend to be different calibers though, and maybe that has a lot to do with it, I don't know.

I must admit that I'm not one of the top shooters and I tend to be a follower. If the top shooters are doing something, you can bet that I will be trying to do it too. It would be horrible if they lied about what they were doing.

 

[flexible]

I took a long range rifle course a couple of years ago and shocked myself by hitting 2 out of 3 at 905 yards. rifle was a Savage LRP in 6.5CM. The instructor said 'on a bolt gun only clean if your groups start falling apart'.
Holy smokes, I never followed that advice but I guess there are different ideas out there.

 

[Chaotik]

In long range Benchrest I don't clean between relays.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm a little confused about the cleaning thing too. It seems the short range BR group shooters tend to clean between each target which is 5 to 10 shots. The VFS short range shooters tend to clean after 30 to 50 shots, or the match.
In my opinion both are about as pure regarding accuracy as it gets. Wind and other outside matters have less impact on results than the other precision shooting for these two. They do tend to be different calibers though, and maybe that has a lot to do with it, I don't know.

I must admit that I'm not one of the top shooters and I tend to be a follower. If the top shooters are doing something, you can bet that I will be trying to do it too. It would be horrible if they lied about what they were doing.

No, no. Nobody said anyone was lying. Some guns it matters on but what always matters is what you believe. That's why I'm adamant about testing what you read, hear and see..for yourself. And test things that nobody else does too. How else will we ever advance?

 

[jimmymac]

Wind and other outside matters have less impact on results than the other precision shooting for these two. They do tend to be different calibers though, and maybe that has a lot to do with it, I don't know.

Respectfully, this is a misconception. The guys who read the wind the best make less mistakes and end up at the top. That is why the range is littered with wind flags. You can have the best tuned gun on the planet and still perform extremely poor if you are not skilled at wind reading. Conversely, you can be quite conpetitive with an average gun and excellent wind reading skills. It is all about minimizing mistakes.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I clean after a relay. I know some barrels can go a whole lot longer than others before accuracy falls off, but I surely don't want to burn up more barrel life figuring that out from one to another. Patches and solvents are not breaking the bank. But everything else involved is starting to. I don't want to find out where my barrels edge is while shooting a match......

Regards
Rick

 

[AlNyhus]

It seems the short range BR group shooters tend to clean between each target which is 5 to 10 shots. The VFS short range shooters tend to clean after 30 to 50 shots, or the match.

Keep in mind that the .30's used by the majority of VFS competitors are not as fussy about cleaning as the 6PPC's used in Group shooting.

I normally clean after a yardage with the 30's. I do have one .30 barrel that doesn't like to be stretched out for a full yardage so that one gets cleaned mid yardages. The gun and target will let you know what it likes.

 

[Will Henry]

I have competed in various disciplines, over the years, and my cleaning regime has varied according to various factors. When I started shooting BR (mid-1970's), everyone cleaned between matches, and so did I. By around 1980, I had found that my better barrels didn't foul anyway, so I started cleaning after every other match. Now, my shooting technique was a bit different from what you see today, so each match consisted of seven shots, two sighters and the group. I almost never went back to the sighter to verify conditions, as many do today. Yes, there were times when it would have helped! Anyway, I cleaned every fourteen or fifteen shots. I have not shot a BR match in at least ten years, but I used the same cleaning regime and the same shooting style and did OK.
When I briefly shot some 1000 yd BR, I cleaned after each group (ten shot).
When I started shooting "F" class (late '90's) I cleaned after two ranges. Later I started cleaning less and cleaned at the end of each day. I never saw that the reduced cleaning frequency hurt me any. The accuracy requirement for "F" was not as stringent as for short range BR for group, and that played into it a bit.
If I start to shoot BR again, I'll probably stick with the same old cleaning frequency and procedure (including the use of toilet paper for patches!). For silhouette, I keep cleaning at the end of the day (usually eighty shots). Shooting prone, with a sling, I'll clean at the end of the day. If I have a barrel that fouls enough to lose accuracy after a few shots, I'll find out why or just take it off. WH

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I clean after a relay. I know some barrels can go a whole lot longer than others before accuracy falls off, but I surely don't want to burn up more barrel life figuring that out from one to another. Patches and solvents are not breaking the bank. But everything else involved is starting to. I don't want to find out where my barrels edge is while shooting a match......

Regards
Rick

I'd like to meet you in person at a match Rick...but you'll be busy cleaning. Lol!

 

[R.Morehouse]

I'd like to meet you in person at a match Rick...but you'll be busy cleaning. Lol!

I'm a Multi-Tasker.....I can clean my gun and B.S. with the best of them.....

 

[JEFFPPC]

Jimmymac said it all. I might add one note. At a multi distance matches most often whoever scores best at the longest distance is the winner.

 

[JEFFPPC]

One other thing t.hat comes into play is the cartridge/ caliber. Ppc gets cleaned every relay. 30 br not so much. But again, flags, flags, benchmanners.

 

[dusterdave173]

I have said it before
I went to a cleaning match and some shooting broke out

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Personally I think that SBR shooters (myself included) clean way to much.
Normally I will clean my PPC every 2-3 cards (15-25 rds depending on sighters) although I don't worry if I run it an extra card. There are a whole lot more important things happening out in front of me that I need to worry about.
Normally I don't clean my 30 BR until we switch yardage (@ 35 rds). I have actually run the 30BR well above
50 rds with no apparent adverse affect on target. I was using up some leftover ammo practicing/verifying tuner setting Friday morning and 9 out of ten rounds (shot #'s 28-37 no cleaning) went into
a .186 round hole with shot # 2 going 1/2 a bullet low/left (right where I pulled it. LOL)
That also put an even 1800 rds through this barrel, probably just getting broken in.
Have I mentioned how much I love the 30?
YMMV/JMHO
G

 

[Websurfer]

My 6 ppc’s like to be cleaned between 100 and 200 yard stages, proven to me through many matches. It takes only a couple foulers to get the 6 ppc barrels back in tune.
Regarding 30BR, I’ll do a wet patch or two every couple of matches. I clean these barrels thoroughly maybe twice a year. It always takes a dozen or so rounds to get back in tune, when the barrels are squeaky clean…and I don’t like wasting so many rounds to get back in tune.
Your barrels will tell you what they want, so record everything and look for trends.
Good luck!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Personally I think that SBR shooters (myself included) clean way to much.
Normally I will clean my PPC every 2-3 cards (15-25 rds depending on sighters) although I don't worry if I run it an extra card. There are a whole lot more important things happening out in front of me that I need to worry about.
Normally I don't clean my 30 BR until we switch yardage (@ 35 rds). I have actually run the 30BR well above
50 rds with no apparent adverse affect on target. I was using up some leftover ammo practicing/verifying tuner setting Friday morning and 9 out of ten rounds (shot #'s 28-37 no cleaning) went into
a .186 round hole with shot # 2 going 1/2 a bullet low/left (right where I pulled it. LOL)
Have I mentioned how much I love the 30?
YMMV/JMHO
G


View attachment 1580839

You're shooting it well, too. I do shoot a lot more sighters than you apparently do, fwiw. I average 2.5-3 sighters for every record bull but that includes warm up and all, so roughly 150 rounds or a few less per 2 yardage match. I shoot more on switchy days or days where tune leaves me than on good days but just on average. I take at least 150 with me to a match and 200 to a big match. I've seen the time, a few times, where I needed pretty much all 200. I tend to chase my sighters a lot. Just my shooting style and what works for me. If I have to stop for any reason, I do not trust myself at knowing I'm looking at the same condition as when I put the brakes on. The sighter confirms one way or the other. Some people don't need many sighters but I've seen a lot of people improve their shooting by shooting more sighters, just for the reason I just mentioned. Different ranges and even different days dictate how many sighters I use. Just keep doing what you're doing...it's working for you.

But more to the subject, I've won matches with a gun with nearly 400 rounds between cleanings more than once, in srbr matches. Again though, I think this is where danzac coating shines. Literally, little to no difference in what came out of the bbl vs 30 rounds between cleaning. Just my 2 cents but thats why I say test things. I do believe some people do more damage cleaning than they do shooting, too.