Cleaning Carbon Ring from Throat?

[barnesuser28]

Tag, lot of good info.

 

[LawrenceHanson]

The carbon ring, as I understand it, is a deposit of hard carbon fouling that forms at the end of the chamber neck and within the throat of the bore. These are two distinctly different areas and I use two different methods to address the carbon ring in these areas. After normal cleaning with liquid solvents, I will inspect the bore with a borescope to determine if a carbon ring is present. I have not found a liquid solvent that will completely remove a well established carbon ring. If a carbon ring is present, I use a tight fitting patch charged with Flitz to remove the carbon ring in the throat area, working the patch in and out of the throat until it is clean. This may require several patches and a lot of elbow work depending on the severity of the ring and the condition of the bore surface. An eroded or fire-checked bore seems to be more difficult to clean. I use a bronze bore brush loaded with Flitz to clean the carbon ring out of the chamber neck. A short non rotating rod is used to spin the brush in the chamber neck until it is clean. The residue is then patched out of the bore and chamber. Finally, the bore is inspected again with the borescope to verify that the carbon ring has been completely removed. I have not noticed any damage to the bore using this method but the bore does become polished with the use of Flitz.

I started using Flitz this spring when I noticed that JB bore cleaner was not keeping carbon fouling under control in a 223 Remington rifle with a Hart barrel. Although this is a custom hand lapped barrel is has been used extensively and the throat has become eroded and heat-checked. I believe the rough surface of the throat contributes to hard carbon build up. Switching to Flitz completely removed the carbon. This summer I have been shooting a 6PPC and a 22PPC-.100 Short and have been using Flitz to keep them clean. Both rifles have Hart barrels. There is no question that Flitz has polished the bores of these barrels. However, I have not noticed an increase in jacket or copper fouling or increased difficulty in cleaning them. Liquid solvents effectively remove the jacket fouling. Flitz is used only when a carbon ring begins to form.

 

[Cochran]

A few years ago one of the best barrel makers in the business told me he didn't recommend abrasive cleaners but if I was determined, use Iosso on a heavily oiled bore. He said it was 800 grit garnet.

Jeff

 

[lpreddick]

thank you dmoran! a picture IS worth a thousand words. we must all speak the same language in order to share and exchange ideas and you pic shows the location of the "carbon ring". i suspect the carbon is flat and comes up to the lip of the case and you can easily see how it will crimp a case mouth when the case is a few thou longer than 10-20 cases fired, all being same length.

 

[snakepit]

Attached below is a quick ruff drawing I made to describe what I refer to as a "carbon ring".
From the case neck (depending on length) to and on the throat junction. Carbon in the throat itself, I refer to as "carbon layer".

My input,
Donovan

Thanks for the drawing. Since I have never seen this through a borescope this picture seems to give me an impression of what this might look like.

Since this drawing appears to show the carbon ring in the chamber just before the throat I was wondering if you could use a .30 Cal or .410 Bronze Bore Brush in a 6BR and your cleaning product to clean the carbon out of the chamber or would this damage the chamber.

 

[BoydAllen]

From the Wikipedia article on CR-39...Again, not what I was talking about..
"CR-39 is transparent in the visible spectrum and is almost completely opaque in the ultraviolet range. It has high abrasion resistance, in fact the highest abrasion/scratch resistance of any uncoated optical plastic."
I did not say that these products were harmful, when properly used, just that they are abrasives, as did Dave Tooley.

Boyd

 

[CatShooter]

Since this drawing appears to show the carbon ring in the chamber just before the throat I was wondering if you could use a .30 Cal or .410 Bronze Bore Brush and your cleaning product to clean the carbon out of the chamber or would this damage the chamber.

I spin a bronze brush in the neck to clean the hard ash deposit out.

It works for me.

 

[GSPV]

Pretty much what I do except that I put a dab of Iosso on the end of the oversize brush.

 

[BoydAllen]

Donovan,
I did not say that either of these products were inappropriate for use in a barrel, or make any claims about their scratching steel, but just like you can remove metal with a polishing wheel, fine abrasives, improperly used can remove metal. The main area for caution is that the rod not touch the bore when using abrasives. This gets down to technique and cleaning rod guide design. I use these products. My whole point was that they are abrasives, suitable for the task that they were designed for, but nonetheless abrasives. I would have never gotten into this, if you had not said that they are not, and referred to Tooley to back that up. You do not have to prove anything to me. I am very familiar with the products. I have used them for years.
Boyd

 

[Old Navy]

Can't imagine any of these products are more abrasive than the carbon that we are pushing down the bore. Later! Frank

 

[Nomad47]

Can't imagine any of these products are more abrasive than the carbon that we are pushing down the bore. Later! Frank

Good point, Frank.

Frankly, I don't care if the products are abrasive or not. Donovan, you made a statement and two gentlemen disagreed and the rest of us don't care, apparently. Let it go, Man.

I don't put any chemicals down my bores. However, since I have some JB, I may put some on a patch wrapped around a brush to attack the carbon that keeps appearing in my chamber neck area.

 

[racesnake]

When moly coating first became popular I started coating bullets and used them in a Krieger barreled 223 match rifle. I believed the hipe of not having to clean very often when using moly. The rifle went from shooting bugholes to shooting shotgun patterns! A bore scope confirmed a badly fouled barrel with moly. I found that the only thing that worked on the moly was J-B paste. I spent the better part of a day scrubbing with J-B and swabbing with Shooter's Choice. As I went along I accumulated a pile of dirty patches. when finished I scooped up the patches to toss them and happened to drop some of them on a scribe that had a magnet on one end. When I went to move the scribe it actually tried to pick up the patches! The only explanation for this is that J-B abraded enough barrel metal to make the patches mildly magnetic.Don't think for one minute that J-B is not abrasive - IT IS!

 

[CZ550]

I had a carbon ring last week cause me some pressure problems. I didn't have all my brushes handy so I took a nylon brush and added some steel wool to the leading edge of the brush. It worked like a charm, and will be doing it that way from now on. I never cared for twisting a bronze brush in the throat it always seems to jack up a good brush.

 

[jnyfeler]

... I took a nylon brush and added some steel wool to the leading edge of the brush.

And did what with it? Twisted it in the neck-throat area? Did you use Iosso? JB?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[CZ550]

I lightly spun it, after I soaked the barrel down with boretech.

 

[Leaddog]

All good responses. Thank you.

About every 150-200 rounds I use USP bore paste after my regular cleaning regimen. Is this product suitable for cleaning off the carbon ring?

 

[fkimble@charter.net]

Is the carbon ring a result of wrong speed powder? Does wrong speed powder make it happen sooner? Just trying to get a handle on whats causes it and how to head it off or prolong it affecting accuracy.

 

[lpreddick]

my battle with this beast is that it only responds to a physical removal, not chemical. the products of propellant burn are more than just carbon and they are exposed to temps of sev thousands degrees F. it accumulates in the chamber, an area not touched by the bullet, so it's not brushed/pushed out as some is in the bore. a rotating brush with jb and solvent does the trick but you have to be patient.

 

[Dgd6mm]

I've been maintaining my 6MM Competition Match barrels like this since '07. every 200-300 rounds, just like Joe Hendricks told me to do. Borescopes are a shooters bestfriend when accuracy problems and pressure issues creep up.