cleaning a barrel

[double g]

can a barrel be cleaned too much using Isso or JB, also how often should you use them.

 

[fredhorace77]

imo yes a barrel can be too clean..especially if its a factory barrel...and i personaly only use jb bore paste about once a year on my main hunting rifles...once a year i give the barrel a good cleaning with jb bore paste and then fowl the barrel back with 3 shots before i take it hunting again..through out the year i just give it a general clean with a good copper solvent and a brush..then fowl it with one shot and go back to hunting..but really cleaning a barrel is truely a personal preference on how it is done and how often...if my hunting rifles are shooting good i personaly just leave them alone...benchrest is a whole different ball game

 

[BoydAllen]

I believe that abrasives need to be used judiciously, and that in order to avoid problems that particular attention needs to be given to rod alignment, and technique, as well as having a top quality rod guide. Guides that are large enough at the back to admit a bore brush, and do not have some sort of bushing or tube on the rod, don't do much to protect a barrel. They mostly just keep solvent out of the action. and bedding.

 

[Outrider27]

On the subject of barrel cleaning, the current (September 2012, issue #264, page 24) of RIFLE magazine has an interesting article on barrel cleaning that covers multiple injuries to barrels caused by cleaning, and what cleaning practices/mistakes causes them. It is definitely worth a read.

 

[Win94ae]

I would only use it if the bore had a serious condition which only could be addressed with an abrasive. Cleaning doesn't fall into that category.

Hoppes #9, Sweets[or similar,] oil, and alcohol are all I need to get a bore squeaky clean.

 

[LHSmith]

win94- Depending how many rounds one fires, sooner or later, in all probability, you're going to run into carbon build-up cleaning with those products listed. Usually won't see it in the typical hunting gun which only sees a box or two of rounds per season....but if it's a competition, PD/varmint, or paper-puncher that gets used routinely many find that routine use of JB or Iosso is the only answer to keep a carbon ring from forming.

 

[Win94ae]

win94- Depending how many rounds one fires, sooner or later, in all probability, you're going to run into carbon build-up cleaning with those products listed. Usually won't see it in the typical hunting gun which only sees a box or two of rounds per season....but if it's a competition, PD/varmint, or paper-puncher that gets used routinely many find that routine use of JB or Iosso is the only answer to keep a carbon ring from forming.

I have a 30 year old Win94ae that has never seen or will ever see an abrasive.

I shoot it about every other day.

 

[Win94ae]

win94- Depending how many rounds one fires, sooner or later, in all probability, you're going to run into carbon build-up cleaning with those products listed. Usually won't see it in the typical hunting gun which only sees a box or two of rounds per season....but if it's a competition, PD/varmint, or paper-puncher that gets used routinely many find that routine use of JB or Iosso is the only answer to keep a carbon ring from forming.

I have a 30 year old Win94ae that has never seen or will ever see an abrasive.

I shoot it about every other day.

I posted it too soon...
This did have a carbon ring due to not using a bronze brush. When I noticed the ring is when I started using the alcohol.

Now I clean with Hoppes with a bronze brush, alcohol with a bronze brush oil with a bronze brush, and copper solvent and a nylon brush; with all my rifles, and see no signs of a carbon ring forming.

And now the 30-30 is a totally different rifle, bore-wise.

I shoot every day.

 

[BoydAllen]

Thanks for the additional details of your procedure. What kind of alcohol, and do you patch between the various brushings? So, you believe that the alcohol and brush will remove carbon better than just using a regular solvent and brushing? Have you done a comparison? I guess what I am trying to get at is on what basis you believe that the alcohol step is needed. I am trying to learn as much as I can about your method. I plan on giving parts of it a try. Currently, at the range, I patch and brush with Butch's Bore Shine, using a bronze brush.

 

[fdshuster]

Krieger advises on their web site, under Frequently asked questions, to use JB bore paste as needed.

I use Krieger (mostly) barrels & will continue to follow their advice.

My opinion based on the recommendation(s) of the barrel maker, and what I see with my borescope.

 

[LHSmith]

win94- The obvious question is how often do you clean? ......and how many strokes with the brush? Are you using a rod for the 94 which requires you to clean from the muzzle? I am intrigued by your use of alcohol. I cleaned muzzleloaders back in the day using only alcohol.

 

[Win94ae]

Thanks for the additional details of your procedure. What kind of alcohol, and do you patch between the various brushings?

Isopropyl rubbing alcohol is what I use.
I do use a patch after each individual solvent bushing.

So, you believe that the alcohol and brush will remove carbon better than just using a regular solvent and brushing?

Yes.

Have you done a comparison? I guess what I am trying to get at is on what basis you believe that the alcohol step is needed.

Yes I have. Try it yourself.
If I clean the bore thoroughly with Hoppes and a copper solvent until the patches come out clean, then apply the alcohol, I always get more carbon out on the next patch.
I'll dip my bronze brush in the alcohol and run it through the bore. Repeat that 5 times then skip dipping until the 8th pass, then 2 more passes. Run a patch down the bore immediately.
I'll usually continue with the Hoppes a few more times since the alcohol has loosened dirt; and more carbon will be released.

I am trying to learn as much as I can about your method. I plan on giving parts of it a try. Currently, at the range, I patch and brush with Butch's Bore Shine, using a bronze brush.

I've used Butches Bore Shine for copper cleaning. It worked wonderfully on copper, not so much on carbon. I'd imagine it would destroy a bronze brush in short order, as well as give you false copper readings on the patch; I used a nylon brush.

When I use Hoppes with the bronze brush, I wash it with hot water right after I scrub the bore, as to not damage it too badly with Hoppes mild copper solvent.

 

[Win94ae]

Krieger advises on their web site, under Frequently asked questions, to use JB bore paste as needed.

I use Krieger (mostly) barrels & will continue to follow their advice.

My opinion based on the recommendation(s) of the barrel maker, and what I see with my borescope.

I see only one mention of abrasives on their Frequently Asked Questions page and it is in the Q: Can you damage a barrel during cleaning? section. I quote...

You can also damage a barrel from simply over cleaning (cleaning more often than needed) and by the over/improper use of abbrasive cleaners.

Here is what they have to say on the "BREAK-IN & CLEANING:" page.

There are two basic types of bore cleaners, chemical and abrasive. The chemical cleaners are usually a blend of various ingredients including oils, solvents, and ammonia (in copper solvents). The abrasive cleaners generally contain no chemical solvents and are an oil, wax, or grease base with an extremely fine abrasive such as chalk, clay, or gypsum.



We recommend the use of good quality, name brand chemical cleaners on a proper fitting patch/jag combination for your particular bore size and good quality properly sized nylon or bronze brushes.

[emphasis theirs]

 

[Win94ae]

win94- The obvious question is how often do you clean? ......and how many strokes with the brush? Are you using a rod for the 94 which requires you to clean from the muzzle? I am intrigued by your use of alcohol. I cleaned muzzleloaders back in the day using only alcohol.

When I clean depends on the powder I'm using. I clean more often when using Varget; less often when using IMR 4064. With Varget I'll clean maybe every 30 shots; about when I notice a bit of inaccuracy.

I usually don't clean unless accuracy is in question, or when it gets rained on; or if I am testing cold/clean bore deviations with new potential loads.

I use a wooden dowel as my cleaning rod; the crown is as it was from the factory.

As are all my crowns that I clean from the muzzle.

 

[K22]

Found the various post of this topic intriguing so I thought I'd add my "2 cents".

I've been using Shooter's Choice for over twenty years and never had a problem with it. By no problem I mean I've never experinced any degredation in accuracy that I can attritude to cleaning. I shoot between 1200 and 1500 rounds of centerfire rifle a year divided somewhat equally between 12 rifles (calibers: 223, 22 250, 242 and 308). I spend one to two days a week on the range practicing off my shooting sticks when I'm not out hunting.

I've never used JB Paste or any abrasive cleaners. I clean my rifles after 25 to 35 rounds have been fired using caliber specific rod guides and Dewey coated rods. I also don't have to fire fouling shots since I've never noticed any significant first shot departures from the group from a clean barrel or cold barrel. I do use an unconventional method to treat the bore after cleaning it (I run a patch of WD 40 down the bore four times leaving a very light coating of it in the bore. (That should really raise some eyebrows )

Granted my accuracy requirements may not be a stringent as others since my goals are in the 1/2 moa range for my varmint rifles and 3/4" moa range for my big game rifles.

The November 2009 issue of the American rifleman had an article entitled "The Clean Barrel" which challenges several of the established practices regarding "barrel break in" and cleaning. It makes for very thought provoking reading. It confirmed some of my own long held suspicions on the issue of cleaning and barrel break in.

I just wonder if too much is made over cleaning? (Now that question should stir up some controversy

 

[BoydAllen]

I guess that I would want to know something about the qualifications of the fellow that wrote the article.

As it happens, a very experienced, and successful) competition shooter has said that he cleans a lot less than is common, and that he has kept very good records tracking accuracy, vs. cleaning frequency, that back up his practices.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek053/

 

[Win94ae]

The November 2009 issue of the American rifleman had an article entitled "The Clean Barrel" which challenges several of the established practices regarding "barrel break in" and cleaning. It makes for very thought provoking reading. It confirmed some of my own long held suspicions on the issue of cleaning and barrel break in.

It is actually entitled, "A Clean Barrel"

The article is a strawman argument on steroids.

 

[BoydAllen]

thanks for the link.

This guy should stick to writing about what he knows about.
From the article:
"This makes sense if you’re a benchrester, especially these days
when almost all shoot the 6 mm PPC with the same
loads. There’s no point in “working up” a load, because
that has been done by 10,000 shooters already."

Really... and Santa Claus wear green overalls on Christmas....

There is something floating in that punch bowl, and it definitely isn't ice.

 

[LHSmith]

This guy is no Jack O'Conner when it comes to writing skills......"It's impossible to know, because we can't break-in a barrel and not break it in at the same time" ??? ??? ???
He also has no clue about Benchrest...unlike Jim Carmichael of Outdoor Life who is near the top of the list in HOF points in Benchrest....and still shoots today.
Beware of the person that uses the word "probably" in his presentation........this confirms that it's a WAG on his part.
This confirms my suspicions that most gun rag writers are influenced by advertisers and end up with bias product reviews. Wonder what Barsness is doing with his lifetime supply of Tubbs final finish and Ultra Bore Coat?
I had no idea the Benchrest crowd was responsible for ill-conceived bore cleaning techniques.....now that dear ol' John has set us right, watch the records FALL.