Chasing the lands is stupid... What do you think?

[Alex Wheeler]

It’s not working blind actually. Once seating depth node has been established, it can only move one way. Out. If rifle quits shooting and you have been keeping up with testing as I suggested in video, then you know something is wrong. Rifle should never be out of tune because it will always be tested on target, and no changes will ever be made without verification as it’s done when chasing lands.

I also know seating depth is important, which is why in the video I talk about how I test seating depth for accuracy.
Only place we disagree is that I do not move my bullet out blindly without testing on target. And if I shoot on target and my gun is shooting as expected, but upon measuring lands it tells me I’m supposed to move, I don’t move. I trust the target more than I trust the lands movement.
That’s about as clear as I can explain it.

My only question with this method is how do you know seating is why the gun went out of tune? In my experience throats move pretty slow in comparison to how much powder charge needs to be tuned for temp and humidity.

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Erik, I liked the video, though the method of always being off jamb to avoid a stuck bullet applies significantly more to the PRS crowd than to bench rest folks whom tend to shoot with as little tension as possible. If loading from a magazine, one MUST use significantly more neck tension than bench rest just to keep the bullet from moving during the "stripping and chambering" process. That extra tension is what causes the bullets to stick in the first place when seated long.

Switching to the bench rest discipline, many shoot at jamb and utilize SIGNIFICANLY less neck tension, often combined with the use of moly or HBN, and a stuck bullet is rarely an issue, especially during a match. The nature of soft-seat is such that I don't need to "chase the lands", as each time I load a round into the chamber, the depth is adjusted automatically. One maintains seating depth for the life of the barrel or until the load starts to shoot poorly - which will result in barrel replacement if high-round count - or a tweak in powder. To purposefully, and always avoid jamb for fear of sticking a bullet, then needing to chase the lands just isn't an issue for those loading a single-shot rifle. It may prevent the very best the rifle has to offer form ever seeing daylight.

Your practices are very sound for PRS, though a lot of viewers might get the impression that to shoot at jamb is to be avoided. If you had prefaced the video as to apply to magazine-fed rifles, you would have far fewer "non believers". Still - thanks for the time to make and present a generally educational video!

LOL, a whole lot of disciplines there being excluded between "PRS" and "benchrest".

 

[jelenko]

Somewhere, as this topic is being discussed, there is probably some 13 year old girl shooting highpower rifle, standing on her hind legs, putting them all in the 10 and X ring with a borrowed rifle, ammunition and equipment, with no clue about what all of this is about.

Danny

Yep. And, they've been at it for all of two years!

But, even for 600, our accuracy requirements pale vs benchrest or F class.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Somewhere, as this topic is being discussed, there is probably some 13 year old girl shooting highpower rifle, standing on her hind legs, putting them all in the 10 and X ring with a borrowed rifle, ammunition and equipment, with no clue about what all of this is about.

Danny

Yep, and she can text faster and get an Ipad to open and look good doing it and her only worry was if her socks go with her shoes...

 

[Old Navy]

View attachment 1192685

Cool!

 

[Lefty Trigger]

Erik, I liked the video, though the method of always being off jamb to avoid a stuck bullet applies significantly more to the PRS crowd than to bench rest folks whom tend to shoot with as little tension as possible. If loading from a magazine, one MUST use significantly more neck tension than bench rest just to keep the bullet from moving during the "stripping and chambering" process. That extra tension is what causes the bullets to stick in the first place when seated long.

Switching to the bench rest discipline, many shoot at jamb and utilize SIGNIFICANLY less neck tension, often combined with the use of moly or HBN, and a stuck bullet is rarely an issue, especially during a match. The nature of soft-seat is such that I don't need to "chase the lands", as each time I load a round into the chamber, the depth is adjusted automatically. One maintains seating depth for the life of the barrel or until the load starts to shoot poorly - which will result in barrel replacement if high-round count - or a tweak in powder. To purposefully, and always avoid jamb for fear of sticking a bullet, then needing to chase the lands just isn't an issue for those loading a single-shot rifle. It may prevent the very best the rifle has to offer form ever seeing daylight.

Your practices are very sound for PRS, though a lot of viewers might get the impression that to shoot at jamb is to be avoided. If you had prefaced the video as to apply to magazine-fed rifles, you would have far fewer "non believers". Still - thanks for the time to make and present a generally educational video!

Problem I found with this method is there is no jam with "significantly less neck tension" as you simply push the bullet back in the case. I tried this and it did not work for me so I just run with about 1.5 to 2 thousands tension and set them off the lands where they shoot best, some rifles it's close like .018 and others its a bunch like .077

 

[Dgd6mm]

Enjoyed the video.

 

[cw308]

I think the only way you could seat a bullet long to see where the lands are is by soft seating with bushing dies , setting neck tension .001. To do it accurately your case has to be sized with zero case headspace . I like the stripped bolt method to find the case and seated bullet measurements. Some barrels shoot better jammed , touch and jumped , only trial and error to see what works best in your rifle , not to mention powder charge . That's another ball game , if you want to cover all bases . No pun intended.

Chris

 

[rardoin]

....... To do it accurately your case has to be sized with zero case headspace ..........
Chris

Explain why that is necessary please, Chris.

 

[Delfuego]

Rocky Marciano could. He beat Joe Lewis's a$$.

 

[rardoin]

Thanks D, I couldn’t find a clip I could post. Some funny chit right there

 

[Erik Cortina]

So we agree it will remain unsubstantiated.

I spent enough time watching the video, I probably won’t research chasing the lands data. Maybe I’ll generate some data on my own, as I go through my current barrel, since one persons data is never conclusive.

David

According to your logic, generating data on your own is useless because you are only one person, and one persons data is “never conclusive”.

 

[DirtySteve]

According to your logic, generating data on your own is useless because you are only one person, and one persons data is “never conclusive”.

It is if the one person did it several times. Then maybe he wanted to share this information, he could do so with a video explaining it..He could also add in that he shoot sF-class....

Haters gunna hate.. Gentlemen take from this video what you find useful and try it or ignore it..

 

[dgeesaman]

According to your logic, generating data on your own is useless because you are only one person, and one persons data is “never conclusive”.

My data could be useful to me. Of course it will not be conclusive regarding all cartridges or rifles. It probably wouldn't even hint at being conclusive for my test cases.

Your methods are sound enough, why are they packaged in condescending theatrics?

 

[searcher]

Problem I found with this method is there is no jam with "significantly less neck tension" as you simply push the bullet back in the case.

Yeah. That is the idea with that method.

 

[6MMsteve]

Joe Lewis Chases Lands

 

[Erik Cortina]

My data could be useful to me. Of course it will not be conclusive regarding all cartridges or rifles. It probably wouldn't even hint at being conclusive for my test cases.

Your methods are sound enough, why are they packaged in condescending theatrics?

Some of you are pretty thin skinned. It's not what I say, it's how I say it that offend you. lol

 

[muleystalker]

Some of you are pretty thin skinned. It's not what I say, it's how I say it that offend you. lol

I agree Erick,LOL. Don't sweat it Eric I appreciate you taking the time to help others by sharing what works for you, obviously its working. I understand at this point it could be easier to just say screw everyone else I don't need this, like many others have done in the past, but just know there are a lot of people that appreciate the effort you are making to help reloaders and shooters out, keep it up.

When did everyone in this country turn into a bunch of pu%sy's and why do they take everything so personal? People Sack Up! Watch the videos and take what you can from it and if it isn't your cup of tea move on. Some of us are not lecturers, we don't give live presentations 3 times a week, some people are better public speakers than others but if you listen to what Eric is saying and think about it it makes good sense. Some of you also are missing his sense of humor ,maybe mistaking it for something else but I get it, some of it you had to be here for from past conversations on this site.

Eric don't let this detour you from sharing the things you have learned over the years with us here, it is appreciated.


Dave

 

[TZaun]

I second this. Well said!!!

 

[cw308]

rardoin
Sorry I didn't get back sooner on why your case should have zero case headspace when using the CBTO method for finding the lands method . Let's say you size the case with .002 headspace , when your seating the bullet long to get the feel from bolt face to ogive , that little .002 wiggle room could through off the measurement . If the case is sized with a.002 from CBTD which I do , when rired it will jam the bullet .002 into the rifling . I use a .002 headspace and a .002 CBTO measurement , so when fired my bullet just touched the lands . Works well for me, no hard chambering and no bullets jammed in rifling . Mid range load with IMR4064 under a Sierra 168gr MK , groups 1/2" at 200 yards.